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yogsloth: I can see claiming the same for exactly the reasons you point out are townie.
Yes. This is the same point that HijacK and Vitek have made.

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yogsloth: It worked, didn't it? You score him as more likely town because he revealed information that the rest of us cannot confirm or verify, and may or may not have any consequential meaning.
Actually it didn't really work. I seem to be the only one awarding him the point and even I did so only two weeks after the fact. If it was indeed a ruse, it succeeded in fooling only one person.
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HijacK: Now where have I said that in my post? All I did was question a theory that sounds fairly weak to me. When you counter a theory whether someone is town, of course it will sound like that someone would be scum, but the base is irrelevant regardless. When you'll read a post of mine saying "I am sure CSPVG is scum" then you can safely assume any theory is based around that. Questioning another theory is not.
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trentonlf: By stating that mrkgnao was reducing the scum to 2 implies you did not consider your view as being that CSPVG was town. if you thought he might be then what mrkgnao said did not reduce the scum to 2. So trying to paint what mrkgnao said as a "funny decision" only applies to CSPVG being scum and knowing his scum buddies shop models.
No, by stating mrkgnao was reducing the scum to 2 being a funny decision I literally questioned why does he do that and how does he "have" such information. That much I can tell you it was obvious from what I posted.
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Sage103082: Are my notes not my own words? or are you trying to get at something?
I believe I made myself clear when I said that list of notes was somewhat contradictory. The number of pro vs con points was fairly close. Of course, how much you suspect or trust someone per point can be different, though the notes did not provide such info.

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Sage103082: I have a few notes I have on yogs from some of his posts that I find off. Now your questions seems like you could care less about the posts that I find off and you want my own words. So basically I found some of his post scummy. I have kept an eye on yogs for many reasons but starting with him staying in books list and never moving. This could be scum keeping scum close or not, But I am trying to look at everything. Some of his posts feel like they are going around in circles at other times it seems like he is only looking in one direction. His change in play. I feel he was trying to play a good game and for some reason it changed. He also seemed to care a little to much about what others were thinking of his game play. I found that off. Town should be worried about finding scum not about what others will think of there game play. Yes, they should take pointers and improve or stop playing a certain way if it is not in the best interest to town, but do this when fellow town bring up something not bring your play style to try to cover something. If town wins all town wins.
Yogs is also not the only person I have looked at and I am open to reading all the posts and other people ideas and thoughts and taking them into consideration as well. I am doing what I should be doing. Looking for things off and questioning them and voting.
I actually find this helpful. Thank you for your time!
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Krypsyn: even for HijacK, even if he doesn't want to admit it :)
That is BS and you know it! I've been insulted before, but it's a first for being called stagnant! Not cool, Kryps, not cool!
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yogsloth: I am putting together some thoughts on Krypsyn. This behavior is very odd, but is it exclusively scummy? Interested in your thoughts, Darko.
OK, more extensively, some scenarios that I'm thinking of at the moment:

a) He is town and he believes everything he's written.
b) He is town and he is overcompensating due to his lack of involvement so far.
c) He is town and he wants to direct nightly attention to himself and/or me, for various reasons.
d) He is mafia and he wants to direct nightly attention to himself and/or me and away from others. If he's trying to direct town's attention to him, it could mean a godfather role. On a side note, my first forum mafia game was a Telika game. I was town cop and I investigated mafia's godfather on Night 1. Didn't go too well.
e) He is mafia, trying to spread the lynch voting options even further. I don't see why that would be so important given the current vote count though and he also switched to voting for Vitek relatively fast.
f) He is mafia and setting up the stage for something way down the line. So much WIFOM there.

So I see his behavior as scummy, but not necessarily mafia, if that makes sense.
So my vote is with Krypsyn and with Krypsyn it will stay.

Krypsyn you state that Darko has been nitpicking others, trying to thwart discussions, and trying to twist and direct arguments away from their initial meaning. You then say post 641 and post 659 are good examples of this. I read these posts and expected to find some major slip I did not see before, but I find a helpful post in both accounts. In post 659 Darko is pointing out to mrkgnao how he did not find a vague post helpful and then pointing out that everyone should check their posts for accuracy. You give a breakdown of the post <span class="podkreslenie"> here</span> trying to paint a helpful post in a bad light.

In post 641 I am really confused where you see twisting arguments, nitpicking, or thwarting a discussion. I see Darko asking a pointed question in relation to a post from Dedo, then asking for clarification of a vote count from dedo, and then explaining why he did not vote on adalibooks. So where is the negative in this post?

I have read over the thread 3 times and can find nowhere that Darko is twisting arguments or thwarting discussions. It seems to me you are the one trying to twist what someone is saying, not Darko.

I would also go back to post 714 where you erased this portion of my statement "The only reason this stands out to me is because in game #22 he said the exact same thing to me when I gave an analysis on Hijack that got Hijack lynched, and Krypsyn was scum that game." in your response making my statement read different. When I asked you about it you said you left it out because that portion of my statement was inconsequential because if your responses are the same across games it's probably because they were made by the same person. They were not made by the same person, and that was my point, and now I see it was not so inconsequential.

You have made some good sounding town posts, but these inconsistencies are too much for me to ignore. I voted you originally for your inactivity and the same statement you made to me and Sage in different games. But now with the way you are trying to paint Darko in a negative light when he has not been negative and trying to manipulate what I said in a post to make it sound different it just reinforces my belief that you are scum.
Here is my updated gradient list, mostly concentrating on changes and events since my last list (#765).

Strong Town
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- DarkoD13
I was very surprised to see his name appear as a suspect in both Krypsyn's (#1072) and Vitek's (#1085) list and in such close succession. If I'm not mistaken (didn't go back to check), until that point he was the only player not on anyone's scum list. Since I don't really believe in concerted attacks by two scum and since I do not believe in coincidence and since Vitek posted second, I suspect Vitek might be attempting to ride on Krypsyn's reading. Because I respect both Vitek's and Krypsyn's experience, regardless of alignment, my homework for tomorrow is to reread all of Darko's posts. But until then he firmly remains in the town position.

- dedoporno
For a while I suspected him of copying my arguments, but recently I caught him copying my arguments even before I posted them. Nothing but town "vibes". Hoping he will come up at a later point with a master move like he did in game #23.

Tend To Town
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- yapsloth
He did a few mistakes (see the Great Wall of Krypsyn #1069 for a list), but I believe these are all classic first-time-player eager-beaver kind of mistakes. These are the kind of mistakes that Krypsyn and I eagerly exploited in game #22 (e.g. SentinelWolf, GreenDigitalWolf). In this game, I believe the one who concentates on them is Sage (see below). Otherwise, he is actively scum-hunting and keen to unite the town. I believe his constant yapping is an asset to the town and he should not stop. It drives people to talk and talking too much is what makes mafia eventually slip.

Neutral, Slight Tend To Town
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- CSPVG
Already explained why in post #1119. Sadly, don't have much more to say.

Neutral
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- Krypsyn
It seems his lurking days are behind us and he's back in full force. I find some of his readings more convincing, some less. I remember well how good a player he was in game #22 (he slipped only once in the entire game, when trentonlf managed to crawl under his skin) and he himself often repeated that he plays exactly the same whether town or mafia, so for now the jury is out.

- Sage103082
The one thing I learned about Sage is that she's constantly evolving, during a game and between games; and this game is no exception. The one constant thing about her is her idiosyncratic syntax, her haphazard (dis)order, and the recurring leaps and bounds from one sentence to the next. If this ever changes, I promise you will hear about it from me. Her involvement has improved and so have her posts. These take time to adjust to, but like others I find them at times useful. The one thing that worries me is her concentrating on yogsloth's newbie mistakes (see above), but not enough to make her scummy.

Tend To Scum
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- trentonlf
Nothing much to add to what I've written before. His posts seem more reactive than proactive, but that could well be a side-effect of the constant beating he has got during this long day. At least he can find some respite from our ordeal in good ol'-fashioned gifting.

- Vitek
My main case against him was what I saw as an attempt to block discussion. I don't appreciate his half-hearted gradient list (#1085). The whole point of the list is to force scum to offer summaries about everyone. "Cool" is not a summary; "cool" is an adjective of temperature. I found Krypsyn's notes about him (#1072) rather convincing, but then so was Darko's rebuttal (#1132), so I am none the wiser.

- Robbeasy
No change. I slightly modified my read of the day #1 events concerning him and adalia, but I won't bother anyone with the details, as I don't believe there's much interest at the moment.

Anti Town [new category]
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- HijacK
I don't know whether he's scum or not, but I tend to think not. However, his move on CSPVG makes me view him as potentially more dangerous to the town than the mafia themselves.
I should clarify a typing error in this statement:
When I asked you about it you said you left it out because that portion of my statement was inconsequential because if your responses are the same across games it's probably because they were made by the same person. They were not made by the same person, and that was my point,

Instead of by it should be about
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mrkgnao: Anti Town [new category]
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- HijacK
I don't know whether he's scum or not, but I tend to think not. However, his move on CSPVG makes me view him as potentially more dangerous to the town than the mafia themselves.
I feel honored!
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mrkgnao: However, his move on CSPVG makes me view him as potentially more dangerous to the town than the mafia themselves.
Also, I just wanted to point this out: This, coming from a player who game #23 openly role claimed Day 1 and encouraged others to do so as well is so ironically hypocritical that I can't even laugh. Not even in disgust.
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DarkoD13: d) He is mafia and he wants to direct nightly attention to himself and/or me and away from others. If he's trying to direct town's attention to him, it could mean a godfather role. On a side note, my first forum mafia game was a Telika game. I was town cop and I investigated mafia's godfather on Night 1. Didn't go too well.
Thou hast fifty fewer dragon kill points.

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DarkoD13: So I see his behavior as scummy, but not necessarily mafia, if that makes sense.
We need some barbed wire.

Unvote: Vitek
Vote: DarkoD13

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trentonlf: So my vote is with Krypsyn and with Krypsyn it will stay.
Maybe I will be the prettiest princess this time? :)
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trentonlf: I posted the question directly to Vitek to see what he said. He logically answered the question, mentioning why he felt it was not a good idea to pursue it, instead of immediately seeing someone else post a theory against CSPVG and running with it. It's pro town to me because I feel if he was scummy he would have ran with it specifically because CSPVG is who he is building a case against.
Thank you for answering. Unfortunately this doesn't convince me. As I said, I have the feeling both of you may end up being from opposing factions, but so far I haven't seen anything tilt the scale towards one looking better than the other. For the time being I can't allow myself the luxury of not assuming both of you to be scum. Vitek is still the top pick, though, so I'l stick with my vote.


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mrkgnao: Strong Town
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- DarkoD13
I was very surprised to see his name appear as a suspect in both Krypsyn's (#1072) and Vitek's (#1085) list and in such close succession. But until then he firmly remains in the town position.

Tend To Town
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- yapsloth
He did a few mistakes (see the Great Wall of Krypsyn #1069 for a list), but I believe these are all classic first-time-player eager-beaver kind of mistakes.
Sigh... I guess we are bound to walk the path together. I hope that in the end we'll be able to recognized one another as an actual and confirmed allies, but only time will tell. My standing is exactly the same regarding Darko.


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mrkgnao: Hoping he will come up at a later point with a master move like he did in game #23.
Yeah, me too, but I suggest to not hold your breath. Last game's play was possible only because a very specific set of requirements were met (some claims from other people and my own role's abilities) and it was pretty risky stuff. We were getting slaughtered so the odds for an all-in seemed acceptable. Unfortunately, this time around the odds are not in my favor and I really know what to do right now. Our best bet is to use our time to the fullest to try and find something decent to pick on and hope for the best with the result of the lynch. That's the problem of the strong start - it leaves you with worse odds afterwards.
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mrkgnao: ...
You know, Vitek's assessment I can actually understand, even if it came after Krypsyn's. I'm trying a more JMichian approach to the game this time and I can see how it can be perceived the way Vitek says. But the "twisting arguments" accusation kind of hurts as twisting things is a stupid move for a town or mafia to make and, as far as I can remember, it's a lie. I'm trying really hard to not respond with an OMGUS vote.
Looking forward to your re-read, in case I am wrong.

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Krypsyn: ...
OMGUS.



And I still need to go back and read Sage's and, now, Krypsyn's posts. Soon.
EBWOP

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dedoporno: Unfortunately, this time around the odds are not in my favor and I really know what to do right now.
This should read "I really don't know what to do right now".
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DarkoD13: OMGUS.
Oh, you. Stop looking in the mirror so much. ;)