One would like to know why you deem my post concerning my notes to be of no value, but seem to think that Sage's rambling note post was in some way helpful.

I think that you, and quite a few of the other players, are misjudging frankly over long and tedious posts as of some great merit. Do not think that, just because one chooses to write shorter posts, they are some how of less value.

Of course, you may find the content of these to be of no value, but that's something we can discuss.

Vitek is never a shiny happy person, however his posts are usually a little more constructive regarding scum-hunting. Both of you have spent more time poking holes in other people's theories than actually forming your own theories, which I don't like. You both have posted some posts that seem to only be there to seem helpful; your summary of the Day 1 wagon, Vitek's count of previous mafia game statistics.

As for examples from other games? Yeah, I am not going to do that. If you wish to spend the time digging through past games for examples, then be my guest. I would rather concentrate on this game, and the dynamics I see here. It is odd that both of you wish to distract from this game be bringing up past games, though; seems like a smoke-screen.

He has more often attempted to poke holes and direct away from certain discussions and theories without adding his own ideas or alternatives. I listed examples in my reads: post 641 and post 659.

I read this as a direct contradiction. Your theory on Vitek's is that he is scum because he does not behave as he has done in the past, but you refuse to discuss the past because it is a smoke screen?

Not sure I get your move here.

One would like to remonstrate with oneself for the line,"...but seem to think that Sage's rambling note post was in some way helpful."

This is uncalled for nastiness, and one apologises for it.

So much to read, once more. It took me almost 2 hours to get up to speed and I still feel I didn't pay enough attention.

I think yogsloth stated first that it's a bit disappointing that most of us seem to pull in different directions. This changed a bit during my reading, but not too much. He also said that some people should re-think their votes and potentially switch to the next in line [in order to get the lynching going]. I would also like us to try and find a way to cooperate better and for better results, but I don't think rushing things just to accumulate enough votes to get someone lynched for the sake of lynching is the best thing to do. When people get impatient and result-hungry and rush things, mistakes are more likely to happen. I'm not sure if yog lobbies for speeding things up, I just got that feeling.

@Sage, I liked your notes! I try to keep a similar list in dropbox, so I have it available everywhere, but you seem to write a lot more than I do. One thing I suggest you to do is to keep post links for the more interesting observations - it helps quite a lot when you have to go back and look at it :)


One small thing I noticed, that seems interesting is how trentonlf and Vitek are on a number of people's scum lists (not always both of them, but at least one) and in the same time both of them see each other as town. They give each other town points pretty much constantly. In addition, after Vitek shared his own list with "reads" (I have this in quotes since the rationale for the people he sees as town is pretty much non-existent) trentonlf supposedly tried to bait him into jumping on CSPVG for posting sooner rather than later, as CSPVG originally said he would. Soon afterwards trent gave Vitek town points for not biting on this and pushing CSPVG further.

Why give town points to someone for not using every chance to pursue and corner the person on the top of their scum list and are currently in campaign for their lynch?

No, not speeding things up - it's more about trying to shake ourselves out of a rut. Rather than rush to lynch, it's about letting go of our own individual single-mindedness that has resulted in seven different players receiving votes with not enough consideration for the cases being made by others.

I probably should have said "more" valuable contributions rather than "some". Apologies.

Can you elaborate on why you deemed it beneficial to town to reveal your ship model? Do you still feel that was the correct thing to do at the time?

I am putting together some thoughts on Krypsyn. This behavior is very odd, but is it exclusively scummy? Interested in your thoughts, Darko.

I really don't know, I've never seen him like this before. He seems more aggressive than usual and I see some selective amnesia in his posts. My first instinct is that it's a distraction technique, but I

yeeees? :)

Not sure how I managed to post that while typing.

"My first instinct is that it's a distraction technique, but I can't see to what end."

Thanks.

It isn't... it is exactly the same way I felt about trentonlf bringing up my past play in different games. There are common themes to how people talk and act (even for HijacK, even if he doesn't want to admit it :)). Saying Vitek is "always like this" might be true, but is not helpful.

Let's say I go back and find posts where Vitek is more helpful than he is now. I am sure they exist, since he has been in many, many of these games. Then someone else can easily pick out posts where he has acted the same way as he has here, for the same reason (many, many posts to choose from). It becomes a he said, she said, and it does nothing to progress this game forward.

Hence, I would rather judge each person on the merits of their posts in this game, and forgo rehashing old games by comparing out of context posts. I can't make my 'move' any more plain than that.

I posted the question directly to Vitek to see what he said. He logically answered the question, mentioning why he felt it was not a good idea to pursue it, instead of immediately seeing someone else post a theory against CSPVG and running with it. It's pro town to me because I feel if he was scummy he would have ran with it specifically because CSPVG is who he is building a case against.

One gets one post-factum thoughtfulness point from me (unrelated to town points).

P.S. People, don't expect anything useful from me until tonight. Busy day at work. Will try to pop in to browse like I just did.

I would like to add a thought to this.

Assume for this argument he is scum, as you say. At the time CSPVG hammers, he actually really only knows two ship models, his own and Telika's. He knows what adalia has claimed, but unless he received his buddies ship models via initial PM, he has no way of knowing if this is true or simply a part of adalia's gambit. So, he sees adalia claim Mark IV. If he is the same model, I can see claiming the same for exactly the reasons you point out are townie. It worked, didn't it? You score him as more likely town because he revealed information that the rest of us cannot confirm or verify, and may or may not have any consequential meaning.

WIFOMy?

Yes, but I point it out to show that this reveal is not exclusively town-leaning for me. Just like trent's nighttime PM, a player "revealing" information that is impossible to corroborate and yields no actual facts, to me, is distraction and inherently unproductive. I don't award town points for such.

This doesn't mean that I put CSPVG firmly into the scum columng, but it someone wants to convince me he's town, the ship model reveal is not going to do it.