Sorry to bring up experience in playing Mafia on here - it feels like I'm some schoolyard bully or something - but in EVERY game I've played in where I have been Mafia, the roles of the other Mafia players is known.

Fair enough. Thanks for your reply. I was waiting on it to post my reads list, so that will be up shortly. :)

How were you informed of them?

My reads, from most pro-town to most scummy:

Robbeasy (Town):

His actions on Day 1 seemed very pro-town. As I mentioned in my wagon analysis post, I just don't think he would be the first to renew pressure on a scum-buddy after letting him off the hook before. I think it is far more likely he would have waited for someone else to pick up the banner before joining the wagon.

His play on Day 2 has also been mostly pro-town; I like his scum-hunting and use of pressure votes. I like certain posts he has made like 622 where he directs scum-hunting to subjects I feel are most productive and away from those which can only muddy the water. However, I don't like his assumptions about mafia being on/off the wagon in post post 691 (which he has since retracted) or him talking about the size of the mafia in post 700.

There has been some talk about his “Do you see what I am doing here?” post. I think that it is a red herring, and at this point it has been over-analyzed and twisted beyond whatever meaning it might have had originally. My interpretation is that he was pressuring adaliabooks with a question to see if lacked information that town should be expected to know. Nothing more, nothing less. The folks that have been using this post as a reason to question Robbeasy deserve special scrutiny.

yogsloth (Leaning Town):

His placement on the adaliabooks wagon does a lot to make me believe he is town. He is new, so I have no idea how he plays, but I really don't think someone would place the third vote on a scum-buddy given th situation adaliabooks found himself in. It was just too precarious a situation, and that third vote made him far and away the best and easiest lynch target. I don't believe much experience with the game would be required to see this and understand the ramifications.

Slightly disconcerting is his post immediately upon Day 2's start. I am not a fan of 'attaboy, town” posts that begin Days, in general, as they are often scum trying to look townie. However, in this case, killing a Strongman with a lynch on day 1 is pretty amazing, and I tend to believe him when he says he was very impatient for Day 2 to start (although, this doesn't say much either way for his alignment). He has had some other posts which seem to point everywhere and nowhere at the same time, as well as posts like 662 which add theories (4-scum team, in this case), which can obfuscate and confuse legitimate scum-hunting. In post 1016, he starts discussing what a potential Doctor might do at Night, which is quite scummy, and is the main reason he is only “Leaning Town”.

All in all, I am still getting a pro-town feeling from him. His play seems like a new player exuberant and intent to take part. This explains how some if his posts are quite wordy, as he is trying to comment about everything in the game at the same time. Some of his posts are a little troubling, if read in a certain light, but for now I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

dedoporno (Leaning Town):

I like his play so far. I think he has been pro-actively scum-hunting and I agree with many of his points. More-over, he was an L-1 vote for adaliabooks; alone this means little (as I noted in my bandwagon analysis), but taken with the rest of his play I see it as leaning pro-town.

In post 597, he is the one of the first, if not the first, to slam the door on discussing ship models. I agree whole-heartedly; we are far more likely to give up information useful to scum than to town by doing this. In post 758, he points the finger at Vitek, accusing Vitek of an “attack is the strongest defense” approach, and he backs it up when pressed with his notes in post 766. I'll get to Vitek later, but suffice it to say that I echo many of dedoporno's misgivings about Vitek.

All in all, it isn't just one thing, but the basic stance and attitude of dedoporno's posts in general. I think he has been consistently and persistently pro-town. There isn't enough here to put me over the moon with confidence, but it exists.

mrkgnao (Leaning Town):

He would be higher on my list, but I am troubled by the way he is going after Robbeasy for his “You see what I doing here?” question of adaliabooks. I have played as a wolf-buddy to mrkgnao, and he does indeed look at things linguistically, but this can be use for good and evil. It could easily be a way to twist the actions of a townie to seem nefarious enough to get him lynched.

His saving grace is that he was #2 on the wagon for adaliabooks. As I mentioned in my wagon analysis, I think the second vote, given the circumstance, is very pro-town. As scum, he would really be putting a scum-buddy at risk by placing the second vote on him with no other major suspects available for a parallel wagon

Other than those two major points, his play has been interactive and consistent. While I may find some of his stances questionable, I do thing he has been keeping this game going in a pro-town direction. All told, he is barely leaning town for me presently.

Hijack (Neutral):

He seems much more pro-town and constructive this time around. I won't go into why this may or may not be, but I will only say that it is very welcome.

I like his posts 874 and 875 where he makes a list of reads. Mrkgnao stated that his posts were in “WIFOM Hell”, and while I agree somewhat with this, I don't think it was that bad. He does come to conlcusion for most of the people, and the fence-sitting is not that major. I don't like how he draws attention to how CSPVG may have a power role in post 988; talking about potential roles rarely helps anyone except scum.

Then there is the entire argument with yogsloth. If anything this has made me a little more at ease with HijacK that prior, because his reactions have been very similar to how he reacted to me when I accused/voted for him on Day 2.

Currently, I am neutral on HijacK, but I would very much object to his lynch (if it ever came up).

To be continued...

I wanted to do that...>:C

...

trentonlf (Neutral):

He got on and off the wagon of adaliabooks, which can be seen as a little scummy. However, when he got off the wagon he did so to allow other folks to give their input which is pro-town. He wasn't able to get back on the wagon, because one of the people he was waiting to give input (CSPVG) hammered along with his input.

At the start of Day 2, he gave a summary of what happened to him during the Night. I think he is telling the truth here, but I think coming forward with the information would be equally likely regardless of alignment. As town, he would be helping by getting the information out there, and, as scum, he would be opening the door to talking about possible power roles.

I find it interesting how many people have decided to pick apart his posts, but I haven't seen that much in his posts to sway me one way or the other. If he seems a little defensive at times, I think it might be warranted.

CSPVG (Leaning Scum):

He hammered adaliabooks on Day 1. Adaliabooks was scum, so this could be seen as pro-town, however it could also be seen as scum knowing it was the end for a scum-buddy and just desiring to end the Day before more discussion can take place. He gave many reasons for voting for adalaibooks, but this could be to make his bussing more convincing, or because he wanted everyone to know why he was hammering a potential fellow townie. I don't think much can be gleaned for certain either way. Perhaps something may come to light down the road that makes the hammer vote more significant, but I haven't seen it yet.

He hasn't posted much (yes, I am aware of my hypocrisy), and the only major thing I found from him on Day 2 was his vote for Robbeasy in post 878. I don't like this vote. There had been several other players to voice agreement with mrkgnao's analysis of Robbeasy's “You see what I am doing here?” post (dedoporno 707, Sage103082 779, HijacK 875), but he was the first to place a vote. I think it is possibly scum picking up on a rationale to vote for a town player that seems to have some support.

Sage103082 (Leaning Scum):

I have found her posts a little more perfunctory this time around. She hasn't had many (any?) of her rambling stream-of-consciousness posts in Day 2. I really like those posts, because they are what would have me agreeing with her even when I disagreed with her conclusions.

This time around she seems a little more eager to vote for someone (yogsloth) in post 929, without as much second-guessing and analysis made evident. I don't know if this change is because she is scum, if it is because RL has been busy, or if this is just her growing/changing with experience as a Mafia player. However, I do find the vote for yogsloth, and her piggy-backed rationale (off of HijacK) to be a little scummy.

Vitek (Scum):

I seems like his posts during Day 2 have be more interested finding things wrong with other people's posts, rather that being pro-active with anaysis. He seems to try to find minor problems with other people's posts, then make these mole hills into mountains. I see this as more disruptive and obfuscating than as actual scum-hunting.

My prime example of this is perhaps a little OMGUS. When I was replying to trentonlf, and I only quoted part of his post in my reply, trentonlf questioned me about it. I didn't think it was a big deal, but it was a decent enough follow up by trentonlf. However, Vitek jumped on, also putting pressure on my for “omitting” details to make trentonf look guilty. The way he followed up someone to attack me (for what I believe is a weak reason) is highly suspect.

Lastly, when he has made potentially pro-town posts, such as his reads post in 941, they have seem very weak, with little bite. He essentially says he doesn't think anyone has done anything to seem that scummy. Super.

This along with how he fence-sat regarding the adaliabooks lynch, and never voted makes him one of my top two scum candidates.

DarkoD13 (Scum):

Since the start of the day, I have seen his posts as more interested in poking hole in other theories, rather than making any of his own. It seems to both try to thwart discussion, as well as try to twist and direct the focus of arguments away from their initial meaning. Posts 641 and 659 are good examples of this.

He makes a summer post of the adaliabooks wagon in post 648. I dislike summaries (sage103082 did a bit of this as well) as they often used to substitute raw data in the plae of actual analysis. They can be a way for scum to look like they are helping town to hunt scum without actually adding anything new to the discussion.

Vote: DarkoD13

Fair enough. No need to apologise.
As Vitek has pointed out, in the only game that Telika had hosted before (mafia #18) they didn't know until night #1.

EBWOP

Already spotted a mistake. When talking about how I accused and voted for HijacK, I mean in Game 22. In this game I have done no such thing, obviously.

Krypsyn you frustrate me. I have you leaning scum for your inactivity and your odd posts from early on. And now you show up scum hunting and very good posts. How am I supposed to keep you on my scum list when you are behaving like this!

I will say it is good to see you actively posting again, and whatever took you away from participating i hope all turned out well.

Man, I really should have proof read that better; so many typos. Oh well, I am sure you guys will let me know if anything needs clarification. *sigh*

Thank you for the post Krypsyn.

You have four players at various stages on the scum ledger, with two ranked equally in title as simply "scum". One of them, Vitek, is already in discussion from some players as being scum, and in fact (I believe, it's been so long) still is the leading wagon with two votes. Had you placed a vote here, you would have moved this into full-fledged wagon at 50% capacity.

Yet you voted for Darko, a player whom you know to be on virtually every pro-town list in the game.

Why? Is your intended purpose to sway five other members all the way against Darko, and successfully lynch him in Day two?

Are you a girl (I kid)? This reminds me of every relationship I have ever had.

Would it surprise you that your vote on me actually made me give you more town points? I didn't mention it in my analysis, but it is a fact. I deserved votes, and i am amazed I didn't get more.

Just click your heels together and... oh, wait... no... I suppose that wouldn't apply here. Nevermind

It did. It was nothing bad. I only refrain from mentioning it on the thread because it has to do with family and I don't really want to let it be a point of debate in any way shape or form. I reiterate: it was not bad. :)

I thought a bit about this, actually. I am not against voting for Vitek, and I may, in fact, move my vote to him. In this case, however, I wanted to vote for the person I think looks the most scummy, not the person that can most easily be lynched. We have quite a while before the deadline, and much more discussion can be had. I am in no rush to pile on anyone at this stage. You remember what I said about my experiences with third votes on wagons, I trust? It was regarding you, after all.

Why I think CSPVG is mafia:

It is mostly because of his interactions with adalia and for his Rob case.

CSPVG was only player who adalia defended several times:
168 - "CSPVG and Sage lurky but it's not bad for CSPVG and is for Sage, let's look at Sage", http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_24_the_not_ending_soon_war/post276] + town Sage
276 - don't see his as lurking and think he contributes[/url],
279 -when asked about it - "OK, he isn't contributing that much and what he said is repeat but he isn't waffling." Compare to 377 about yogsloth - he is scummy because he repeats others
346 - when mentioned again "OK, he isn't contributing that much, it was someone else"
418 - says CSPVG is lurking but it's his usual play - granted, I was saying the same thing so it's not scummy per se

Adalia was bit too much apolegetic about CSPVG considering he said there is not much to work with on D1 and tried to went after me and then yog after minor things.

CSPVG repaid it to adalia by defending him in fairly crucial moment.
He tried to doubt yog and his vote against adalia in 448 I linked yesterday. It is true the vote where yog voted wasn't the best one and it is "fairly" reasonable question but what matters more is the timing it is after adalia accrued 3 votes so wagon already started but it was still chance to avert it and redirecting to yog who had 1 vote at the moment wasn't too out of reach.
Even before (370) he doubted yogsloth right after he FOSed adalia and Sage.
Sure, he then hammered him but after several people commited to do it soon and there was no way out for adalia whatsoever.
He also claimed ship in that post but that itself means nothing in regards to his scuminess as he has history of premature, needless claims with little reasoning.

He seemed quite concerned about how will his hammer ("Hopefully this won't be seen as a 'scumhammer'") and same ship claim as mafia look. Too concerned I feel.

Then there is his case on Robbeasy. He started it after the Day 2 started (same link as the last one) by bringing to attention like Rob disappeared for 96 posts in the end of D1 and was "merely sitting there and not contributing much to the discussion", which would be scummy but "he did seem to be rather convinced of adalia's guilt from the moment he voted for him, and so could simply have felt that contributing was unnecessary."
He admits himself it was only 1 day but still sees it as problem. That's quite funny considering he hasn't posted for 111 posts during the same period.

This now seems to be core of his case against Rob and warranted vote on Rob. 1 day of no posting from Rob brought up by CSPVG(!).
When it got little attention he tried to bring it up again later (693). He then mentions Rob again (763) and brings up that he is suspicious because he voted on the non-scummy place on wagon unlike valiant CSPVG who did scummy necessary hammer.
Only thing that makes him unsure is mrkgnao linguistic case on Rob becuse he find it problematic.
He then changes mind later (879) and, together with Rob's 1 day lurkiness in the end of D1 it makes him actually vote him instead of it being problematic. Feels like he decided to embrace it to strengthen his vote.

I for one don't believe he is town power role at all, but mafia instead.
I am going to vote CSPVG now as the game is slower than it should be. The thing I take a lot of blame for.