Oh, don't worry - I don't find the game frustrating, I find the lack of reactions to obvious scum clues frustrating, what is basically happening is a repeat of day one (though latest posts have changed that somewhat) where amok is lynch target no.1, and several people just go with the flow and bicker about me being scum, because first I was "vote jumping" though I was not, then I was not voting before no-lynch, though I was, then I was scum for having a scum list, which is normal, then I was scum for calling the liar untrustworthy... rinse and repeat. Keep in mind I consider it perfectly likely scum was included in this, but not all could have been, two have made it rather clear what they are doing and Vitek has been going on and off, first saying scum clues, then town points then scum clues. And oddly enough he appears to be basing his latest judgment on another game (for the record Vitek I don't recall old games I played, nor do I care. I read the current game and act in accordance with that game - the liar in the other game might have acted in a way that did not require me to be stunned as to why he is still alive - for instance it could be because of his very very disturbing play? His terrible reasons for voting? His lack of case? His major false claim? Dunno if any of that as present in whatever game you are reading, but heck I don't even know what game you are reading). Also I really like that I have so far been accused of shifting around too much and being too rigid.. Damn, I guess I am just so awesome that I can do two opposite things at once.

And we also have a situation where an assumed town apparently find it necessary to kill himself, just to ensure people will actually lynch someone, which is just absurd for us to reach this kind of state.

I might have missed it before, but you had already claimed? Or did you just now also claim a power-role? So now we have both town jailer and a cop role claimed? :O And they both support each other to some degree. Great -_- So should Telika be town, scum will be clapping their hands, NK cop, lynch nmillar the jailer and bam - scum pretty much won. Assuming all is claiming truthfully.
So assuming things aren't that simple (and I really hope they are not) - I say we don't go for the lynch that could potentially completely destroy any chance of victory for town and instead focus more on those, say who lied, and then used being called untrustworthy as an argument for why someone should be lynched!

Yea, people not voting causes a no-lynch is truly surprising. In fact we have quite a lot of people unwilling to vote. Most important town aspect to cast your vote btw ;)

We get it, problem is we don't know if we should believe it, given the proof so far has been that you placed clues for it in your own posts. I might believe it, I might not. But in both cases I wouldn't want to go with a strategy to lynch Telika, then you or the reverse - since I believe we can easily have had a scenario where you jailing Telika did not cause the lack of NK. And in that case we are handing scum the game.

It could for instance be related to the number thing in some way, though I am rather uncertain how that could function.

I am not saying it couldn't happen, I am saying it shouldn't happen. And as already said, no I do not remember it nor care. Honestly it would be rather nice to keep out meta-reads from another game, which you have managed to put into this game as if it was reads from this game. It just confuses things and have no relevance. Why? Simple; though I do not know which game you are talking about nor recall the case I believe that the scenario in which it occurred was rather different then the one we currently have. You are welcome to ignore it and go on about other games and assumed connections with that or that, but I can promise you this; I am not a person to keep the same mindset for every game - nor do I react the same in every situation, no matter the factors involved. My tenacity might be the only thing that stays the same - and heck even that changes given my free-time.

And no, you could not. Because I was not ONE vote away from lynch, nor have I been proven a liar, nor had I claimed, nor had I claimed a neutral - so again, we are dealing with a situation with specific factors that it is required to consider when I say that I find it more likely he is scum, given the lack of a vote than he isn't. And yes, I am going by how I would have thought, which can be a bias, but still my case is not that one argument even if it is likely the easiest to refuse. Oh and btw: Vitek, you have yet to actually specify any of those scum tells ;) And as you might have noticed; I pointed out the crypto claiming before you, and gave pretty much the same reason as you for why the nmillar/Telika idea is not to my liking, yet you only appear to consider thing I mentioned about Telika relevant. You also ignored my case for flubbucket and my other reasons for amok.. Interesting.

This is starting to appear well crafted.

The more I read the most recent exchange the more convinced/confused I get. 1) It was quite clear nmillar was a jailer so there was no need to claim it. A child could have deduced such a thing. 2) CSPVG claim is just vague enough to give wiggle room should someone want to counter. 3) Should this lynch of Telika proceed and he flip scum it would be the bus to cement nmillar as perma-town and that is where I'm getting the itchies.

How can this self-lynch so easily happen Telika? I am not convinced this is the best idea.

Nope, no such feeling - possibly the opposite : mild annoyance at the thought of leaving the game, but enough detachment to judge it okay if helpful. More precisely : I've had the feeling of being stuck in a too difficult scumtrap, and, rather than fighting it (for indivuîdual survival), I preferred to try to turn it to global town advantage.

That being said.

1) "Jailed" ? So NMillar's "definite conviction" comes from the fact that he has jailed someone the night where there's been no kill, therefore the person he protected is "definitely" the killer ? This is to add to the list of random and arbitrary justifications (along with the roleplay and the differential usage of equivalent day 1 rob/spf info).

2) Please try to minimise claims, as it is as much the goal of scum as mislynches (defines targets directly or by elimination, and narrows the range of safe false claims).

3) Jailer has a town connotation, but was mafia in previous game for flavor reasons. My suspicion stays, based on ski reactions, and on the scumlist motivations (first the "plausible deniability" of seriousness, then the disproportionate "definite conviction") which seem to me closer to random target seeking than to actual beliefs.

4) Jailing means no need for other kill-preventing action, so indeed, my lynch would not give as much info as I hoped (the chances of outing the killer through the reveal of another block, or linking Nmillar's action to a delibrerately suspended nightkill). And we must assume the jailing is real, because of CSPVG's confirmation and the risk NMillar would be taking if the jailer was someone else.

So, there for now.

Put yourself in my shoes. You accumulate elements that convince you of a player's guilt. This players suddenly turns around and solidifies his omgus in a claim about you (that, at that point, sounds as a convenient block-with-nokill). Your hopes to share your conviction are reduced by this suspicion. It's early game, where a 1:1 loss would benefit town much more. Why not simply just go along, accept the trap, but drag your target with you. A win given the clarifications it would bring and the chances to get a mafioso in the process.

However the fact that it's a "jail" complicates it quite a bit, as it gives much more room for interpretation (both today, and tomorrow if I flip town), and doesn't allow the situation to be exploited so directly...

Telika, any thoughts regarding CSPVG's quick support of nmillar's action/role?? Seems like a plan to me.

While I would say that I corroborated nmillar's claim that Telika's room was locked last night, I would not strongly refute your use of the word 'support'. I merely thought that my claim could clear up some of the confusion surrounding nmillar's, but also go on to further argue against Telika's self-lynch( spurred on by nmillar's claim). I just wanted to point out that there were a wide range of possibilities.

Also, I must have been an absolute dunce, as I didn't catch any of nmillar's clues as to his role. Perhaps I just didn't read his posts carefully enough.

So - let me get things straight here.

we have Amok, who has lied, claimed more than once, and generally muddies the waters of the whole game.

we have nmillar , who has claimed Town Jailkeeper, and is voting for Telika due to the fact of no night kill last night, after 'jailing' him last night.

we have Telika, calling nmillars claim out by inviting lynch on himself, to prove he is town.

we have CSPVG, who has also pretty much claimed out of the blue, with a cop role.
Like Flubb, I find this claiming behaviour very strange indeed. Why on earth would you come out and claim this role at this point, painting a big fat target on your back for NK, claiming a powerful role like that, just to back up an assertion by another player on a supposed roleblock ?!! That makes zero sense.

Your scumteam is nmillar, CSPVG and a.n.other. They've gone for a high risk visible strategy and for me its utter bollocks.

although I still think lynching Amok is a must, as LAL applies, he can wait.

unvote

vote nmillar

Dammit, CSPVG. Proofread.

I meant that I would strongly refute your use of the word 'support', not that I would not do so.

Hah. In my last post I was about to interpret this point, and after 30 seconds I just went "aargh too complicated, another time".

Basically : I believe CSPVG. If it was a pure invention, mafia would have gone for a "block" claim, not a "jail" claim (jail has the avantage of townie connotation, but is so open for interpretation -on what was prevented- that it makes NMillar's "conviction" arbitrary). I also think that, at this point, the intervention of CSPVG is mostly town-ish. NMillar didn't need an outer confirmation (if he was lying about my door, he would have risked me having a power and roaming around, and calling it out). CSPVG only brought up that it is a jail and not a block, which does weaken NMillar's point more than it reinforces it. I think that a mafioso would have stayed silent at this point.

Also, I have no problem with the ambiguity of "maybe it's the numbers". I have my own interpretation, for the numbers, which I'm surprised nobody brought up yet (I think), and I don't really think they interfer, or can be used as an excuse for backtracking later.

Much lurkers. Too much to ponder. So Wine.

Oh god, what the hell is going on here? Was everyone told to claim and to act stupid?
What was you trying to achieve by claim CSPVG?

I am really sorry. Although I can grant your request, it is only because I ate the banana yesterday already so I don't have any left. :-/

Are you kidding me?
You are kiddin¨ng me, right?
Please tell me you are kidding me?
We shouldn't bring up old games because they make things more confusing?
But only meta from other games, right? So meta from this game we can use? Meta from the same game, geez.
Dude, I am using meta in every game and you never complained.
Why should I ignore how players acted in previous games when they act differently as town or scum or if it is very similar situation? It is one of basics of mafia.

Seriously, go read it damn it, and until then do not talk to me about it. I even summarised it to you in my previous post? Why do you think it is not relevant?

Only reason you have for this is that it is "your" wagon.


I did the first I was looking for and this one I will withold (go, withold, go!) until I check it.
Why do you care if it is about meta? You don't respect meta at all?

1. where did you mention cryptoclaiming?
2. So I cannot talk about it anymore if you said your opinion on it? Sorry, then I will be more careful next time.

Sorry to disappoint you, pal, but I am not always going to reply to every word you say?
Also how do yopu know I ignored it? Only because I haven't commented on it doesn't mean I ignored it.

Indeed.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Why?



Seriously Vote Red_baron. You are playing awful and it's only thing you deserve right now.


@Robbeasy; CSPVG claimed in very similar way in the Zchinque's Asylum game. (I am sorry, it is of no relevence and it probably confuses you but I can't help myself. :-p) Also Rob, the thing with GR I talked about with RB applies to you too. Relevant post 1, relevant post 2, relevant post 3. I hope you are not too mad at me for bringing older games up. Don't hate me. :-)

Also, does anyone else than Robbeasy believe that it is ploy from CSPVG and nmillar to get Telika lynched?

But do you think they planned it together with CSPVG and that nmillar is not jailkeeper?

This post is written as I read so please bear that in mind.

Not more than anyone else at the moment. A lot less than nmillar.

Prudence's pet dog?

You realise that last game was the second time I've ever been scum in forum mafia, right? Since the average scum team in a game is ~25% of the number of players, that would be a 1 in 4 chance of being mafia each game. I have actually played scum a below average number of times for the number of games I've been in.
This makes me sad.

I was the serial killer in the legendary game 6 though, maybe that's what you were thinking of? Still, that's 3 bad guy roles in god knows how many games (I'm pretty sure I've played more than 12).

unvote amok, vote nmillar

Don't forget "always ends up being scum"!

Why are you putting an 'if' in, don't you know your alignment? ¬_¬

Ok, now I'm beginning to come round to the idea that you're scum. It's difficult though because I still somewhat suspect nmillar and I can't see that you're on the same team.

Yes, we get it and this does make a certain kind of sense. It certainly explains why you were obsessed with the lack of nightkill, which was one of my reasons for suspecting you. Not to mention that CSPVG has inadvertently* confirmed your ability to a certain extent.

(*Of course this could be an elaborate plan if he's your scum buddy)

unvote nmillar

Well this is significant.

nmillar's assumption that he must have prevented the kill by blocking rather than protection is really weird. It's like he's already decided to try and get you lynched and then is desperately trying to find something to enable that. On the other hand, it appears he really is a jailkeeper based on CSPVG's post.

So my thinking is either CSPVG is also mafia and the confirmation of nmillar's abilities is false OR nmillar is a mafia jailer. I think the assumption that the kill was prevented because Telika was blocked is a slip of sorts, exposing nmillar's agenda.

vote nmillar

Mm, that's what I wondered. The lack of lack of 'realisation' as to why the room was locked was a nice touch. But I think it's more likely that nmillar is an actual mafia jailkeeper.

Do you mean playing awfully as mafia or town? >_>

And yeah, it did occur to me that it might be a ploy but I think it's probably more likely CSPVG is telling the truth there.

No. As I said, I think NMillar is jailkeeper. As I already said : I think he would have chosen "blocker" if it was a pure invention. I don't think they would have conspired for a fake "jailing", as using it as a lynch argument is much more scummy than a block. And I don't think they would have simply invented a block, as they wouldn't know if I would have been active or not.

I said "half of them" because I don't think that CSPVG lied : his intervention didn't add much in defense of NMillar (we coul already assume it wasn't an invention), and only stressed that it was a jail instead of a block. I don't think a collective effort was neede. If anything, a CSPVG could be using the opportunity to claim a fake town power, but this feels far fetched.