I don't think anyone has addressed a pretty valid point Zchinque is making though. I think Telika has mentioned it too. Assuming he OP is accurate, we have 3 scum and, because of the high number of players, maybe some neutrals too. Do we rely on their common decency to share their real information with us? How would false information benefit the town more than it would the mafia?

Game balance. If we're in a straight up three scum, twelve town setup, that's highly unbalanced in favour of the town. If we do assume that the opening flavour means there are three scumsters running around, we pretty much have to have some anti-town neutrals as well.

Ah. Ok. There could be more scum than trails, but I see your point. And I don't like it very much. Neutrals win if they fulfill their own conditions, right ? Means a game can end with "neutral wins", or with "neutral and town/mafia" win ?

Can "neutrals" have town-leaning or scum-leaning agendas ? Is it worth speculating what kind of neutral role or faction the setting could allow ?

Maybe more importantly, "neutrals" should be hunted like scum by the townies ? I mean, if one of my current suspicions fit the "neutral" possibility, should I vote against it as I would vote against a mafioso ?

Yes, of course, who doesn't?

Yes. Or only town/mafia win and neutral losing. ;-)

Yes but mostly they have their own agenda and can't be ever fully trusted by neither side.
If someone needs to kill some townie or something similar then they certainly have scum-leaning agenda.

NO.

No way.
To hunt neutrals is just scummy thing. Look who have done it last: SPF in previous game when his buddy (flub) was getting too much attention and he tried to bring attention toward neutral-hunting.
It allows scum to go after someone legitimately and appear like they are actually doing something to help town. It also helps to shift attention from mafia, distracts from scumhunting and allows them to stay alive. Plus one more thing I wanted to mention but forgot it before I finished previous sentence.
Every lynch of neutral is not lynch of scum so it's of little help to town. It is mafia wet dream to let town waste it's time on hunting neutrals instead of caring for real threat.

One exception could be serial killer but still mafia should go first. SK is threat to all sides while mafia only to townies.

Yeah, if you want to admit openly that you are scum. :-p


I am trying to slowly get myself back into game, but it is hard, so please have patience.

Would another bullheaded argument help? :P

OK, I am out of here again. :-)

Just because he'd go along with the majority doesn't mean he's in any way in favour of it. His opinion on whether we should do it or not was obviously no. I don't like this at all, vote amok.

Is joe ok ?

Good question. He seemed ok when I last saw him, but he seems to have forgotten about the game...

I asked him something about game and he replied to me 2 days ago so he should be aware of game existence. :-)

IUnvote. Time to find a better suited location for mah vote.

Still wrapping my mind around the notion of neutrals. And a related contradiction.

1. We should not hunt for them, okay.

2. They can be harmful to town or harmful to mafia, we don't know.

3. Their objective is independant from town/scum wins.

so

If they are not anti-town, why don't they just go "hey, i'm a neutral, i try to achieve this, don't pay attention to me".

If they don't just go "hey, i'm a neutral, i try to achieve this, don't pay attention to me", doesn't it mean they are anti-town, in which case, what is the rationale to spare them already ? Or to blank out neutrality suspicions ?

In other words - do "neutral" neutrals get specific instructions about not revealing neutrality ? In general ?

Also, is there a consensus (through balance and role numbers evaluations) on the actual presence on neutrals in this game ? Do some people believe that there are more than 3 scum ? Do people believe that there are multiple scum teams ? Do people believe that the game is still balanced with 3 scum and 12 town ? What are people's general feel about that ?

Mostly, yes. Claimed neutrals are prime vig targets. It takes care of false claiming scum, and all neutrals are to a degree a liability to town. Never encountered it. On the 3 vs 12 thing, you could run the numbers easily enough. Assume a random lynch each day and a successful kill on a townie each night. Town should come out victorious a majority of the time.

So is there a conflict between

and

?