Sorry, I'm behind on the Red/Rod/Telika discussions, I'll try to catch up.


I'm waiting to hear what kind of useful information town got from making me fullclaim, by the way.

It gave a somewhat credible background explanation for your role.

Really? Why's that?

I ahd PM exchange with him few days ago so he just don't feel it's necessary to post votecount. Maybe we are just nor woth his attention.

So, today's thoughts.

I don't expect Rod to have town victory conditions. This is mostly because of his line of reasoning when it comes to accusing me. He had mentionned two reasons, neither can be very honestly defended (one was the self-contradictory point about my flavor being not confirmed therefore false therefore mafia and reinterpreted as true without the paradox to be aknowledged ; the other one is a claimed factual contradiction by jmich which was a mere denial, honest or not, of a hypothesis of mine). When I point out these absurdities, it is interpreted as omgus.

So, I don't see honesty here. But i've already read as mafia NMillar for an argument which was flawed in good faith. So I keep both hypotheses open : deliberately or accidentally flawed reasoning. Still, this IS what we are supposed to build our reads on, in this game.

Now, four hypotheses.

If rod is town, then I suppose red is town. I agree that Joe would probably not give contradictory winning conditions to a player, and if rod is honest, which I doubt, then he has red's survival as a victory condition as well as mafia's death.

This also means that if red is mafia, then rod is mafia.

If rod lies, I see three possibilities. The first one is straightforward : rod is mafia, and all his story about inheritance can be false. The other possibilities are neutral roles, compatible with his story. One neutral possibility could be red's survival as sole victory condition. In which case, red can have any affiliation without any contradiction (or mod bastardism) to be necessary.

Another neutral possibility would be quite interesting : a lyncher role, not targetting redbaron (as rod doesn't behave like a redbaron lyncher), but targetting my character, percieved as a rival for the will. This could explain a series of things, from the dishonest arguments (popping up after my claim) to the testament info absent from my own flavor (as it is not relevant to my own activity).

But if rod is a lyncher, then two remarks : First, it would target a character name and not a player name, so that makes it different from the pazzer/flub mecanism (could there be different lynch mechanics in this game?). Secondly, I am not a lyncher, so it would not be a symetrical lynchers couple. This might in turn cast a doubt on Flub's own claim.

Conclusion of all this.

1. Rod has a slightly higher chance of being non-town than Red (as you can't have rod town and red mafia, but you can have red town and rod mafia).

2. If rod flips lyncher, this would lead to reconsiderations about flub.

For now, I

UNVOTE DARKOD13 (sorry for the lack of bolding, as I type this from a cumbersome minismartphone)

and I wait for the rest before deciding myself between JMich and Rodzaju.

Also, I reiterate my question about the possible interest of listing "identity items" so that, if I get nightkilled, p1na can at least point out at suspect "unexpected items"... As mafia didn't deliberate yet about this night's preferred target, they don't really know who they'll kill and who'll be still there, and can't plan a very safe strategy in terms of "identity item" claims. Maybe there is something to exploit there.

I've been following this most recent exchanges with much fascination...well a mixture of fascination and confusion.

Trying to clearly sort out the most recent information into good and bad categories is proving most difficult. Much like trying to trust ones "gut" when reading posts. What I am trying to dissect is the information regarding relationships which I have made mention of previously in this game.

QuadrAlien/pazzer and I are brother and sister. And I think is the reason for our lyncher connection. Oddly enough we are both town. I know that may be hard for some to believe, but I don't really care because I'm trying to figure things out. What is giving me the case of the confusion rash is how the other thing (which can't be mentioned) relates.

For instance: How can Vitek "like" another character, be town, and have that same character be scum?? I'm not saying this is the case ...just hypothetical.

But let's say how can Rodzaju have a win condition that hinges on scum winning and him being town?? That seems unfair to say the least.

What I'm finding quite fascinating is the possibility of our relationships hinting at something? How likely could it be for Telika's person he "likes" to be a townie?? Seems overly simple.....Perhaps???

Could Red_Baron's person he "hates" be scum or is that person already dead??

Maybe lovers, one dies they both die?? Bahh!!!

Rodzaju thing makes absolutely no sense.

And a magician?!?! I can already see him winding his long handlebar mustache around his finger as he plots the demise of the town.

Ugh, brain hurts...

Ow. Well, Flub, if you REALLY want to go there, I have THIS. Good luck.

I personally have given up on this angle, because it didn't seem to lead anywhere, and because I do expect people to be shocked by their liked ones, or surprised by their disliked ones, as the whole "crime novel" genre kinda demands. But still, Joe went through the trouble of setting up this whole like/dislike network, so I suppose there must be a reason. But probably not a straightforward one and, for now, I've considered it more distracting than anything else.

But if you can give it some meaning, well, you're welcome to try. :-/

(Also, unfortunately, this version is censored because Joe would not allow me to include elements that I haven't shared in day 1. And note the thinner p1na relations, that's because I'm not sure I had interpreted his posts right or missed a more explicit one. Lastly, I've put the version that I use, marking those that I consider cleared or mostly cleared, but I also add a more neutral version if you wish to work on it without this bias.)

Crap I closed my post.

OK, shorter version.

I personaly don't care much about your family connections much and I admit I skipped a lot of it (although the age thing is interesting:-)). But form what was said I guss it's quite sure that Rod and Red_baron are either both town or scumbuddies. I find it unlikely Rod is scum and Red not as there would be not much reason for Rod to confirm RB which he basicaly tried to do.
Red can't be scum himself as it would make game unwinnable for Rodzaju sicne beginning and that's just stupid and impossible.
I used to somewhat trust Rod but never trusted Red_baron so I am bit torn here.

I still believe that there is handkerchief killer and it should be someone without item attributed to them. So either Darko, JMich, Rodzaju or Red_Baron. Darko is unlikely as he was targeted 3 times already and his role is probably true. He still can be the other scum though.
It leaves Red_Baron, JMicjh and Rodzaju.
I personaly would go with lynching one of them, Pina could check the other for item and we should find him this way (if it's neither lynched one nor checked one then it's the 3rd, if it's neither it's Telika).

I'm okay with that, but don't forger CSPVG. Maybe he gets results on night activities.

Yeah but Pina is directly tied to items, CSPVG offered little useful results and I trust him less than Pina.

OK, kind of caught up. A few thoughts:
Clearing people based on flavor reasons was a silly idea to begin with. I see voting based on likes/dislikes in the same way since you're bound to have someone like a character who's scum once the game is over or people disliking characters who are town (the second part we've already seen). It wouldn't be much of a mafia game if it could all be solved based on likes/dislikes.
About Rod, I'm not sure what his role could be, but I'm not that surprised we have another person semi-claiming, almost everyone seems to have some kind of role in this game.
I'm pretty sure I wanted to say something more, but I can't recall what it was.

I knew the likes/dislikes sounded idiotic when I said it out loud, but the stipulation to only mention our information on Day One led me to think something might be made of it. I thought better to mention it and get feedback than to let it drop.

Red_Baron and Rodzaju are creeping up the list. Actually moving rapidly...for a couple of alleged old fogies ;-)

Rodzaju. do you have to be alive too until at the end of game in order to win or only RB has to survive (and town prevail) for you to win?

Okay, Joe answered that he believe my role was actually to be 86 years old, but he'll go home and check - so I guess certain confirmation is still waiting, but figure that the 86 year old me is what its supposed to be.