Just to be detailed (anal??) about it, there are other possibilities for no NK on night one. However roleblock is the most logical.

At this juncture I would not have a big issue with name/role claim. As a rule I loathe such things!! However, I think we've reached something of an impasse and we need to make this lynch a scum lynch. With nmillar's death I have serious concerns about our success.

Telika why/who would you kill the jailer and leave the cop alive??

I'm not asking to indict you I'm asking because you seem to have a mind for critical thinking.

Anyone else feel free to answer...

Flubbucket: that answer can have tow possible explanations;

1: The cop (I assume you mean CSPVG) is scum, thus no need for NK

2: The cop is town, and given his rather useless information as of now is no danger to leave alive. While the jailer was a proven effective role, who had also largely been accepted as town.

In fact I can quite readily see CSPVG purposely giving out the fairly useless information and I am coming to realize that I might very well be inclined to consider him a candidate for lynching.

Or as to the other options:

1: The cop is P1na, and not a danger due to being scum (same as before)

2: He is a proven role, that might be useful - but again the jailer had a proven effect on them, and could both protect and block. Add to that perspective of him being town was higher than a thief.

Concerning CSPVG :

1) There is the possibility that he's scum. One related question is why a cop would claim without a result, but he did in order to confirm NMillar's jailing claim. So, this aspect is not particularly suspicious. Now would a mafioso target Darko tonight (aka : test his untargettability -which would be sincere in town- instead of gathering info on someone else, with even the optional possibility of claiming to have targetted Darko), would that have been the strategy co-decided tonight by the mafia ? I quite doubt so. Especially as they didn't know how closely they were watched.

2) There is CSPVG's proclaimed inefficiency, illustrated by his attempt on Flub, but this can be a (numbers related?) random chance of failing/succeeding, and I'm surprised the mafia is okay to wait until he gets an actual result before deciding he's worth being nightkilled : it could be a bit too late at that point.

3) There can be a question of priority (the jailer protects and block, so he represents two chances to block a kill per night), and this question of priority may be offset by the fear of an obvious target being somehow protected by someone (another potential waste of nightkill). This is a bit difficult to asess, but was already bugging me after N2, making me suspect both CSPVG and NMillar...

4) There can be strategic choices of nightkill, based on daytime opposition (kill that one and use his flip to lynch this one), but I think the practical reasons to lynch a jailer are anyway bigger than this.

Right now, I mostly consider him town (if Darko flips scum he'd be confirmed town), but I also mostly consider him useless, power-wise. Still, I have a feeble hope in a sudden surprise bonus weepee result some morning, which would be fine, especially if the mafia is focusing on me and P1na.


No, a godfather ability is very different - it gives a false result to a traditional straightforward "cop" investigation (and we're not even sure we have one), but it allows all other sorts of investigations.

Yes we've already discussed this. And I don't see what, in Amok's flip, lets us suppose that he was leaving the chalet every night.

Okay these are two statements I simply don't understand. How would your background story and/or identity combined with the numbers lead to your nightkill ? Also what's with the lack of nightkill in night 1 ? You have info on me not having been targetted after all ?

Ah yea, had forgotten about why he initially claimed and your support that he did indeed target him. It does reversely mean though that should you be scum, then the other CSPVG could be scum as well, given that it would enforce both of you with the ability (I initially thought that, but then upon some more pondering I came to realize it didn't quite hold true, hence the next part) . However you have claimed knowledge of night actions, where it would be dangerous to do so, as those claimed to have had a night-action could have counter claimed, meaning the role's ability is likely true and that it would be a ridiculous role for scum to posses.So I guess... no wait.. before I conclude anything, who is the people which Telika have said targeted someone at night?

Vitek
JMich
CSPVG

And more? JMich denied that he had one, which leaves only two of those I recall and one of those had claimed a power-role and target before hand, making it possible to assume/take the chance that if he is town then he would of course do what he claimed to do - allowing to "identify" him targeting flub. That leaves Vitek as the only other (again of those I recall Telika mentioned) that was claimed to have a night action target, thats then only him and Telika, which is only two people - making it not a completely unlikely scenario that they are the last scum, with a very well planned way of attack. However it is also somewhat to complex and haven't really seen any other signs however vague that Telika and Vitek should be on the same team, so yea this is very much just a theory.. a thin one of that given that he likely claimed more night action people than those I recall. Also JMich didn't really deny it that vehemently.

I guess I am getting swayed, either they have some sort of brilliant plan and deserve to win or I should trust Telika and thus JMich at the very least sounds like a good lynch.

As for your last question Telika, I am guessing he is hinting at being the target for NK on the first day, giving yet another option as to why it didn't happen.

The JMich part was a bluff on Telika's part, he doesn't actually know who the killer is.
Yes, I do consider me being the N1 target is a possibility. I didn't know I wouldn't get any flavor in that case, otherwise I would have hinted it during the nmillar/Telika Day 2 discussions.

1) I've already expressed my skepticism towards your "every night" obligation thing, so this is a deadend.

2) I can't relate Amok's flip (town deserter) to anything close to "mafia commuter" (that would be the "mafia equivalent" to your role ?), and while I'm okay with Vitek's interpretation of his flip, I really don't see any relation with untergetability or nightly ski trips.

3) I really can't see any way identties, numbers and scum abilities can be related. Give exemples. Is there something so special about you that you think the number system can be a way for mafia to lynch you through your identity (oir whatever you're getting at, there) ?

Also, N2 handkerchief had one single blond hair in it, N3 had none. I have no idea how else you can explain it. The only logic I can see to it is a remnant of the blond hair that pazzer seems to leave around his target's places. I don't know if that would have included his own place (the thingies I've found were at the targetted locations, not at the owner's residences). Now, other interpretations from anyone are welcome.

Now, Red_Baron, as Darko said, I have nothing "factual" against JMich. To make it clearer, here is the graphical version of what I've disclosed (left), and how I've interpreted it (right). So that, at least, we talk of the same things.

Also, if Darko's thing is an "active" night action, and not a godfather-like protective ability, then there shouldn't be an arrow towards NMillar in N3 : it means that he still could be scum, but probably not the Handkerchief Killer.

2)Like I said, it was the first impression I got from from amok's flip. To desert means to leave/abandon, town deserter leaves town, which resembles the definition of what a commuter does. I didn't say it was well-thought and Vitek's approach makes more sense.

3)There is indeed something special about me, I'm immune to night actions with the possible exception of the numbers system. And no, I'm not going to give examples about something I know nothing about. I'm not the mod.

Woot?
I assume that by pazzer you mean P1na? I thought you were using the blond hair as a way to say that you were the target of scum during night 1. And that the killer bumped into nmillar during night 1. It would help if the post where you explain didn't say pazzer as well.

By Pazzer I meant NMillar. NMillar has left blond hair in front of your door during N2, and in front of Vitek's door during N3. So yeas, I interpret the solitary hair in the handkerchief as a remnant of what should logically have been in front of my door during N1.

Have I been saying Pazzer each time i wanted to refer to NMillar ? I don't dare to check. :-(

Ah, yea got me confused there. Okay :)

Oh so much charty goodness.

My night at work may actually be productive... :-)

So who's still here?? ...Rodzaju is sooooooo lurky!!

1. Telika <----------------- here
2. JMich <----------------- here
3. Flubbucket <----------------- here
4. QuadrA - pazzer - ded
5. Robbeasy - ded
6. Vitek <----------------- here
7. p1na <----------------- here
8. amok - ded
9. DarkoD13 <----------------- here
10. CSPVG <----------------- here
11. twilightbard - Rodzaju <----------------- here
12. SirPrimalform - ded
13. nmillar - ded
14. Red_Baron <----------------- here
15. Zchinque - ded


I'll concede odds favor two scum left after SirPrimalform's death. We have nine players left. Just logging this information so I can find it easier.

Still having some nagging concerns with the ease of CSPVG's caveat about my results could be wrong or can't be fully trusted.Early claim came with that attachment of possible unreliable cop.

It just keeps bugging me....

It bugs me too, but this is quite offset (for me) by the targetting of Darko. Unless someone can offer me a possible version of the mafia discussion leading to this decision. In my eyes, it only makes sense to target darko if you distrust his claim (that is, if you ignore his affiliation, and the mafia doesn't) or if you were kinda forced to (but cspvg could have either openly gone "anyway p1na is targetting him already so i thought i'd check someone else") AND knew you were under surveillance (and I don't suppose the mafia did realise it).

As for who is still here, well, yeah, we're nine alive (probably 7 versus 2). But... I don't feel that "alive" means very much "here". The game seems empty. I don't know if it's disinterest or waitandseeism. I think that deadlines should serve to limitate perpetual arguments, speculations and digressions - but those aren't happening much. Instead, deadlines now sound like "okay, bye, see you again on that day". They serve to limitate unending empty days.

Anyway, for now, my main suspects out of the three out of the five out of the seven out of the eight are : JMich and Darko. JMich for his unproblematic compatibility with both night action and mafia affiliation, Darko for his weird role (going to sleep behind a tree in the forest every night) and his "if i claim then the numbers will combine to nighkill me". I'm quite convinced there is something shady, uncomfortable and hidden, there.

I think Darko must be pressured much more (and right now I expect him to flip scum sooner or later), but for momentum's sake, I can switch my vote to JMich. Is that what it'd take for the game to be alive again ?

Well actually at this point to claim targeting Darko is easy to the point of a no brainer. He (Darko) has stated he jumps out the window at will.

So if I wanted a freebie I would simply state, "oh sure I watched him and he jumped out the window." Am I to be sure that investigation is rock solid??

For mafia it means he is immune to any sort of investigation, so can't be caught through night actions and of course he can't also be vigged.
If you remember, SirPrimalform was killed at night, so there is someone else with night kill than mafia in this game and it will make mafia with your role immune to him. Of course only until he'd be last player left, then he would have to use it himself.

Surely you must see benefit of it.

I really don't like how you are downplaying its usability.
As I mentioned before, it is more balanced for non-town role than town one, as it is overpowered for town and very hard to deal with while as non-town role the player has to be lynched anyway, so it's not so as powerful.

I personaly would see your ability fit most to third party, namely serial killer. I even saw it before. The killer had option to either commute or to take a kill. It is done to give him chance to win as otherwise he can easily become random target for mafia kill and die very quickly.

I would expect it to be most likely option here too, but considering Darko was visited (and unreachable) on night when we had 2 kills so it is very unlikely. It would have to be delayed kill from N1 and I admit I am stretching events to fit it.



I am still unsure about Telika. I believe all (most of) his informations are correct butI still am not sure he is town.
What I don't like is that he knew I targeted CSPVG, willingly told it to anyone, even if he thought both me and him be town and asked me for my read on him, basically asking if I got any kind of investigation on him (unfortuntaley not, my role has no such cool thing available). Hmm, and I got totally distracted for several hours here and I completely lost my train of thoughts. I have no idea where I was going with this.I hope I'll rememebr it later.


What do people think of name claim?


Also, one thing I stumbled upon, Is here any character who isn't english?