May I ask for the flaws in the argument then?

Do we know if reflector had passive nature? Some those things we found about reflector back when he fliped indicated it could be something like bodyguard.
I found most unlikely the Pina's role (for town) followed by Darko, whose role just is too powerful. But Darko was quite inconspicious most of game, so I am not much in favour of lynching him.

I have no idea how Telika reacts when is target of lyncha s mafia.
I on the other hand saw several games from flub, bothas town and as mafia.
When he is town he is always willing to get lynched, not caring and stating he will flip town.
When he is mafia on the other hand, he is concerned asks for reasons to be able to defend himself and generally tries to avoid it more zealously. In none of his scum games, I saw him stating he will flip town.
This is tell taht made me more sure he is scum in last game, but I didn't want to give it away yet.

Sorry but I have no idea what were you trying to say in this post.

This is a side point, as, indeed, correcting your maths didn't change anything to the case you claimed to base on them.

My point was about the acceptation of self-lynch for the sake of lynching a person one is convinced to be scum. Vitek was mentionning Flub's "then lynch us both" proposition (as I made the same and I'm definitely scum for vitek, I assumed he was sarcastic when claiming it looked townish). I opposed it to your stance, which was anticipating my town flip much more than your discourse claimed to.

Something that seems super townish in Vitek's eyes.

I then mentionned another town/scum criterion of Vitek's : The spontaneous guarantee-less acceptation of Zchinque's hammering demand, kept open to any sort of next-day "explanation".

First part is explained in my last post.

No-o. I never wanted wanted some "spontaneous guarantee-less acceptation", stop putting words into my mouth. That's what my brain is for.
We could just let Zchinque hammer or decide we don't trust him and don't allow him it.
You instead went and tried to get every possible piece of information about his ability out of him to see if it could harm you and you quickly got support from SirPrimalform.

No, we could allow him but have the consequences framed a minimum in order to limitate a bit his range on next-day excuses, instead of just allowing him and letting him improvise absolutely anything the next day, with no confrontation to anything from the previous day. It didn't have to be blind faith versus blind faith. It could be allowed with damage control, in order to facilitate his exposure if something was going wrong.

For some reason, the worry about potential harm (and about potential deniability) seems to be mafia-sided, for you. If anything, mafia had no reason to question it, as they knew Zchinque's affiliation (at least his being mafia or not) and thus could anticipate better what side his action would favour, and would need less reasons to decide about allowing it or not.

Exactly beacuse they knew he is not one of them they would have to fear him and wanted to know how powerful his ability is. If they can safely ignore it, prevent him form using it, or kill him if necessary.

I really don't like how this is shaping up. We don't seem to be agree to get a lynch together. We have no clear plan going into the night phase. And worst of all....



Vitek will be able to laugh and point at us and call us stupid town!!!

You don'T have to worry. I will do it in any case.

Is camomille (chamomile?) mentioned anywhere in your PMs?

OK, thanks. Is it one piece? Could P1na drop pieces of it anywhere?

This part was not addressed to me, was it?



What I'm getting from Telika's questions and P1na's claim is that these are the possibilities:
1)P1na "drops pieces" of items he has stolen in each room he visits, but that should mean that flub also smelt camomille
2)Flub actually visited Telika and is lying about it
3)Telika is lying and trying to cast doubt on flub's towniness which was beginning to get established after pazzer's flip

Nothing about chamomile.

Also Zchinque was spelled out in post #663.

Okay, you're so deep in your logic that this discussion is worthless. Let's just say that, as a mafioso, I'd have targetted or prevented a role ranging from neutral to nuisance without looking further. The questionning or the allowing-on-a-leash makes only sense if the range of possibilities is wider. As far as I'm concerned, SPF's behaviour has been mimicking townie correctly, both there (townie concern about dealing with unchecked positive-to-negative outcomes) and after Nmillar's claim (siding with nmillar's probability interpretations would have been blatant scumtell).

Your toss-a-coin answer to the Zchinque situation makes no sense to me. And even less the idea that mafia would be needing more info (and garantees) than town in order to decide about that.

And limitating the range of next-day excuses and denegations that Zchinque could have used in case of antitown event was not going to benefit mafia at all.

I was talking about Telika, sorry for confusion.

Which one do you think is the case here?

There is indeed something wrong about this (and you forgot "someone else uses lavender", though it's not terribly likely either). I would have pished there if Flub was on my list of suspects. Right now, I am annoyed because I don't really see Flub as mafia. So, I had kinda decided to leave that for today and wait for more p1na stuff or complementary info.

I'll have to rule out 1 since flub says he has no mention of camomille in his PMs. Unless Telika has a special power that depends on scents (please don't claim Fluffy). So either 2 or 3. I was just starting to get comfortable with the idea of flub being town, so I don't know. It would depend on how likely it would be to have a lyncher targeting a scum. But I do find it really odd that Telika kind of dropped the issue after his initial questions, especially since they ended up nowhere.