Why are you fixated on the number 3? I have been thinking 2 rival mafia factions of 2 players each. Considering a quarter of 15 (not 16) is 3.75 then they're not likely to be that overpowered, especially considering they don't know each other.

Speculating over this is pointless, I just thought it was interesting on how you were assuming that if there were multiple factions there would be 3.

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Hmm, you have a point. Oh well, it doesn't make much of a difference to our job. Scum is scum is scum.

Okidoki - gonna take em one at a time...

@Baz - what undocumented leap of logic ? I voted for Itai for the same reasons as other people - inconsistencioes in his postings , and unexplained contradictions. Yes I've changed my mind a couple of times as well, but I would hope I've managed to also explain the reasons why.

I opened today with an apology for voting for Itai, with a reasoning as to why the voting for him was flawed - at this time i had Baz and Rod pegged as Town. As this day has gone on, I'm less and less convinced of it.

@ Rod - your post 642 is a classic for just picking bits out of a thread you want to make it look good. Yes, in post 501 I said 'Rod couldn't possibly have the info he clearly does have, if he were Mafia'...
Nice of you to overlook all my posts since then - lets take 599 specifically shall we? I actually acknowledge what I'm saying...

[i]You know what - feck this, I'm going to go back on what I said a couple of pages ago. It stinks, it stinks to high heaven. I think you're pulling something and there's only one way to the bottom of it.
Yes I'm flipping completely from a couple of pages back, a complete 180 degree turn. The more I look at you, the more it just doesn't sit right with me.[/i]

I've outlined why I think you are scum since then several times, but you were obviously in such a hurry to jump on my bandwagon you failed to notice them - another entry in your ever expanding scumtell column...

What makes me laugh is you say its a lot of WIFOM - THATS why I'm voting for you!! As I have already stated, you have to look at the bigger picture, and I believe we stand to gain the most information if you are lynched. I think you are scum, your role and powers and stuff you've already revealed make absolutely no sense to me at all - too convoluted, just too out there to be real.
But, the point i have made is that even if you flip Town we gain loads of good confirmed information - and thats what we need!! From a purely logical point of view, you are the best candidate, no matter whether personal belief of Mafia or Town. But like I say, I just cant believe your claim, and think you are scum.


@NFY - referring to your post #650 - yes I do question Baz - his blase claim that there 'are all probability 3 of them' was asking to be queried. I have stated before now that speculating on the Mafia 'layout' is pointless, as we do not have enough info to go on, and will (possibly) know a lot more when night 2 is over, but when someone comes out with a statement like that, intimating knowledge I didnt have, I wanted to find out why.

As others have stated, there are a few people we know very little about, which is not good. So we have to go with what we do know, and what we think will give us the best chance going forward.

My vote for Rod still stands - in fact strengthened by the very unseemly jump onto me in post 642

If someone says "Even if your town, I still want to kill you", why is it unseemly to believe that person doesn't have town's interest at heart?

Because, as Robbeasy has pointed out plenty of times, your death guarantees information. Bazilisek would be confirmed as jail keeper / paranoid doctor if your claim is true. If, on the other hand, you've been lying, then that's one scum down, and another big suspect in bazilisek ...

Vote Rodzaju.

Well well, I seem to have switched bodies to this new one, with a bit more time on my hand. Lurking gone by away.

Some internal discussion (made external) coming trough:

Been following the game since the beginning and I've managed to change my mind several times; initially (after the info from Rod himself) I had Rodzaju down as a town with Baz being the natural confirmed townie in the relation. And I continued to stick to that even after some voiced objections against it (although a bit puzzled as to way the info needed to come out and the whole "pressure" argument). Now with the game being where it is, I am at a tough call. I feel that the most beneficial action would be to lynch and get the facts straight, effectively providing some new info to go on instead of kicking the same dead horse. On the other I see the fear of having him town, but again that just confirms our knowledge and we'll be much more aware of Baz's position in the game. A problem with that will be that if he speak the truth will lose some info about some roles, without actually knowing any names for them either way and just with a chance to confirm/turn down certain claims.

Now on the other hand, we could choose to lynch Baz, that would give is the info as well - Since Violator confirmed that there haven't been a night 0, so the info would have had to part of his role pm as Rodzaju claims and we won't lose the chance of extra info. We will however lose a "possible" doctor with according to how I understood Rodzaju a chance to kill his target? (please do correct me if I am wrong, there was some of that discussion that confused me). Meaning in my eyes, assuming that Baz is indeed a fairly useless doctor, if not dangerous or as some mention as a possibility (I am still not certain where that came from, as the mentioned roles aren't exactly equals) a jail keeper. Now a jail keeper would be useful if not scum, and since jail keeper has a chance of scum and Baz no matter the role (if it true, not true or if scum) has a chance of harming us, I'll say lynch Bazilisek and we'll gain the facts about the truth of the claim and well save that info.

I am suggesting this as an alternative for the above reasons, since I don't recall seeing someone else considering the second part of the "2 person interlinked town confirmation" and as one should always look at a better way to fix a stuck situation.

Following along that track:

vote Bazilisk

Now if I missed something or misunderstood the part about the role of Baz do tell, as there is a risk of my memory being wrong, since I haven't been taking notes as I am now doing after my switch from observer to player.

And yea, the lurking quad is now gone :)

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call "scummy as hell".

It's been outed earlier this day -- post #534. I'm a Paranoid Doc, which is for all intents and purposes the same as a Jailkeeper: at night, roleblocks and protects the same target. I don't think I've ever claimed an alignment (I've said why I don't like doing that ages ago in this game), but it's Town.

Even if you do doubt Rod and me (which you well should!), suggesting to lynch a power role instead of whatever Rod claims to be is not townish behaviour, not by a long shot. But you've just replaced in, so I'm not going to dwell on this too much.

Rob, I think you noticed that this vote was really just to stir things up (and for old times' sake) and that my heart wasn't really in it. And yes, the way Rod immediately jumped on you is something I just can't ignore, and for me, it really was the last straw. I'm afraid we do have to clear this up, otherwise we won't get anywhere at all.

unvote
vote Rodzaju

That is of course assuming that your claim, which Rodzaju was the first to write about and you defined is true.. Hence you can't really use your claim of being a power role based on one who actually claimed what you were before you did, one that you now don't trust (even though you trusted his action earlier and you role was elaborated further by both you and him). But heck I could also notice that you where the first to jump on Robeasy after he voted for Rodzaju, Rodzaju voted second. But well, my whole point about what I wrote was to avoid looking at one possible solution to a two part action.

So in kind of the way the lynch is going and due to the need of a solution, with Baz and Rodzaju being so closely connected.

Hence unvote

vote Rodzaju

Hoping the best.

Yes, as I say, it's correct play to doubt this whole situation (it's rather difficult to imagine how this all looks from your perspective, when I know for a fact what my role is). The thing is, if we're both lying, than the order you lynch us in does not really matter, but if we are telling the truth, then I do think that a post-restricted informant who cannot inform is a better target than a freaking doctor.

I've been constantly saying that Rodzaju's information, or at least the information he provided about me, is correct. But his play so far hasn't been townish at all, and the way he keeps doing it all even though so many of us have reprimanded him for it is just bizarre.
I fully admit I did not notice that at all. Also, it was only some 90 posts later, so it wasn't exactly an eager vote, was it?

You most certainly do not have that much time - uni project hand in is the 21st of december!

On the whole jailkeeper vs paranoid doctor issue, I agree with you, though, and strongly disagree with peopel sayign jailkeeper = paranoid doctor. The mechanics are fully identical, yes, but there is one massive difference - namely knowledge (And as they say in Warhammer 40.000 "Knowledge is power, guard it well").

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time he did so in this game - my provocative vote and argument against nmillar (As I said, my playstyle - blow it out of proportion, poke the hornet's nest, you get reactions, you get results), Rod was immediately following up on that (post 317 is a direct vote on nmillar, very shortly after picking up my argument as fuel), same for the lynchwagon on itai.sharim (in the sense that his first post after the massive debacle between myself and itai, Rod voted for itai without any real reasoning behind it).

Just wanting to point out that you're attempting to argue against unproven theories with an unproven theory. You cannot know there is only a quarter of the player count as mafia, and a greater count of mafia than the usual standard would make sense if there were more than one mafia faction.


I'm sorry, but what in the hell? You first say that you completely agree that continueing the discussion about the possibility of multiple mafia is scummy and muddies the water, so you immediately decide it's for the better that you do just that? I do NOT follow the logic here.
Further, coupled with other arguments against you (including a meta one mentioned by nmillar in post 354), I'm beginning to find you very suspecious, Vitek

So, at the risk of seeming rushed, attempting to divert attention or misdirecting, I'm going to vote Vitek

I'm not voting Rod as I'm torn about where to place his allegiance, and I think that Rod's death will only confirm baz's role and the fact that we do not want Angelo Cervi dead, whoever is playing him. That's not to say Rod is looking incredibly scummy, and lynching him is a viable option at this very moment for obvious reasons. I am just personally not sure, and if the mislynch on itai taught me anything, it's to second guess myself.

OK, so I'm now at L-2.

I had planned to leave this another day or 2, but it looks like I will not get the chance.

Damnation, you just mentioned Angelo Cervi.
He is a cop.
However, where a normal cop should stay hidden, I think it is in the town's interest to get this guy in the open.
I don't have a clue who you investigated last night, but I'm betting you got a scum result, right?
This creates a MASSIVELY dangerous situation for town.
Cop confirms scum.
Everyone lynches.
Victim turns out town.
Because of the flavour linking us, I believe Angelo Cervi to be scum.
A scum cop, taken in isolation, doesn't make much sense.
This is why I suspect 2 seperate Mafia.

While on the other hand, a scum paranoid cop, which is what you've been hinting at, makes no sense at all!

(Also, a post restriction that doesn't allow you to say "paranoid cop" but allows you to say all that would be rather pointless, don't you think?)

There are players who refuse to claim under any circumstances and there is Rod who leaks informations everywhere. :-)

Ah, I still tended to believe you but this is just weird. The amount of information you can share with us and you can't tell us one word. This is just "non-existent" restriction.

Sample situation:
Post restriction: "You can't tell anyone you are cop"
"Are you cop?"
"No, but I am person who investigate people at night and gets scum/town results."
"So you ARE cop!"
"No, but at our police station we have fabulous donuts."