Okay, so the final act of day one really started with Damnation crawling out of the woodwork in #308. Because that post is very interesting, but also rather long, I will have to quote from it selectively, butchering the context in the process. So don't take my word for it, reread on your own and the other usual disclaimers.

Damn goes the route of "let's throw five vague cases out there and see which one sticks". Interesting about these is that all of them are subtly flawed. First discussed is the one that eventually stuck: itai.sharim. The key bit here is this:

[what makes him suspicious is] Rather his ability to pop into nearly every discussion without really receiving much flak, and yet never, as with most people, never weigh the possibilities, but rather just sling them out. He has a tendency to ask rather good questions, however, but did so during a time where his questions would only further implicate certain people and would in no way be useful to town.

As itai correctly pointed out, there is literally no way to defend against this accusation. It's not really an accusation, is it? It's highly interpretative, and at the end of the paragraph even Damnation himself admits that.

Second case: myself, where Damnation brings out the big guns. The contents of that are okay; the weird part comes at the end:

(I'd also like to bring up the point baz makes in post 251, that we have been pushed into a rabbit whole we cannot get out off - a rabbit hole that was dug by Rod, but we were very much pushed into it by baz and nmillar to a certain degree. People kept pushing Rod for information, so obviously we're bound to end up in a shithole when the information is best left unlearnt...)

Here Damn first comes with the claim that he will repeat over and over again and use as a major foundation for his cases: that me and nmillar forced Rod to claim. The Rod business, if you look back in the thread, started in #114 and his claims, until I stirred up the thing again, more or less ended by #152. Between that, nmillar sent in a grand total of one post, which I can even quote here in its entirety: "Jester?" (#126). I don't know if Damnation is doing this deliberately or not, but he is grossly misinterpreting what has actually happened, there can be no doubt about that. Considering how often he keeps using this bit, it's mighty suspicious.

Third case: JoeSapphire. Here it's this bit that is quite interesting:

People mention he has stepped into debates, attempting to protect Rod. Ei. defending what looks to be the losing partner, thereby creating a potential bond between them, so when Rod dies and possibly flips Town, Joe would appear as having tried to protect a townie, making himself look good.

Not only does this sentence weirdly flip between a "Rod is scum" and "Rod is town" premise, the logic of the final bit makes no sense at all: townies do not know each other, meaning protection of a townie does not make anyone look town. It's a scummy perspective, this, not a townie one (because among scum, it actually does work that way: protecting scum in debate makes you look scum).

Then there's a paragraph on Rod, whom Damnation believes town (even though he suspects me, but let's not go into that). There is no case here, and nothing to comment on.

Now the final case, which is meant to be the kicker, is against nmillar. And it's the most peculiar of them all.

Firstly, he seemed eager to prod Rod for soem information - extorting it for his own benefit, but when Rod exclaimed wish to drop it, he stopped, attempting to mask his desire for said information.

Find me a post where nmillar does that. You won't. Because it does not exist.

[i]Further, he explicitly bites into the "baz is a quack who has 100% kill chance" without any proof other than the idea having been put out.
[...]
This last bit is post 39. He clearly states there are more than one mafia.[/i]

I've already mentioned this: jumping at conclusions is the core of nmillar's play, and basing a case against him on it makes no sense at all. When I told that to Damnation (#384), he replied with a puzzling paragraph in #386 that is full of words, but doesn't seem to say anything. To paraphrase: "Yes, I know that is nmillar's playstyle, but calling him up on it is mine, which makes it okay." Does it, now?

So, a case based on something that does not exist and something Damn knows nmillar does habitually. Great.

(I haven't even gotten to itai yet! Oh dear. I apologise, everyone.)

Okay, now re: itai. He wasn't on the radar at all until he typed up a self-defence reaction to Damn's post, #336. The exchange that followed is tricky to read, because there were genuine misunderstandings on both sides (like the bit with randomly assigned roles), but this stands out to me: in #336, the bit about rabbit holes and nmillar. I'm not going to quote that, as it would be messy, but do reread the itai-Damn debate about this line taken originally from #308. The quote itai posts is not mangled, and it is a genuine contradiction in Damn's post. And what do I see Damnation doing in that debate? Deflecting, deflecting, deflecting. And do not forget that this deflection is about something Damn claims about nmillar which is demonstrably untrue, as I have already shown. That's not townish behaviour, no sir.

Anyway, at that point the nmillar case became uninteresting and Damnation switched to itai and walls of text followed. And there were some more points I wanted to raise there but I don't think anyone is going to read this far, anyway, and I'm tired of typing on this bloody netbook with its keys sized a square centimetre.

So, yeah. Either Damnation's logic is terrible, or he's trying to lead town by the nose (which is a Czech idiom, but I expect it will make sense internationally). I don't really know which. Comments?

... so why on earth did you throw his name out on D1? :/

Ah I see, that makes sense. Please excuse the bluntness of the earlier post.

I intend to do a full read on everyone tomorrow evening, especially the wagon. For now:

Oh Damnation? You've just been rather comprehensively called out...!

Is this the link you're looking for? I'm not entirely understanding the relevance though ...

Indeed it was, and it's relevance is to baz's wall. I have done quick skimmying and he is right, beyond that single post, and post 186 I see to some extent attempting to push Rod... Well, am I more embarrassed than I would have hoped to ever become...

Well, in my unneeded defense, had I not been an idiot and looked back, I doubt it would have been painted further in my discussion with itai. Plus, had he actually spelled it out that THAT was what he was refering to - if he truly was, things might have ended up differently.

In referance to baz's post, the first case - I did admit to it being interpretative, and itai decided to act on it, rather brashly, without any true consent. But if you wish to fell me for this, go ahead.
Your second case, nmillar made multiple posts in the time, though, and the posts I mentioned address the debate directly - you said yourself we would do best to reread the thread, so how could you have skipped those? But as I mentioned earlier, there's not much, and as I said, I'm embarrassed and this alone makes me extremely doubtful of anything I have said previously. Take this as you wish, really.
Your third case has been done before and met with hostility, and is even addressed on the wiki as buddying up, which is a major scumtell if you read it. I was merely acting on it. It doesn't really flip between a "Rod is scum" or "Rod is town" - I mention the possibility of Rod flipping town, I never said he would definately flip town - are you arguing against the possility? I am just merely curious why you take an interesting to the wording there.
Your fourth case - cannot really reply differently that I did to case 2, so I will not comment further.
About the the whole playstyle thing? I never said my playstyle was to call nmillar up on it. You really should know my playstyle if you wish to bring such a discussion up, do you not? I pick on EVERYTHING, and I blow it out of proportions - why? Because I poke the hornet's nest, always, it's what I do. The paragraph is only cryptic if you do not know my playstyle. Do not ask others to know another's playstle if you do not know their own - it's not good discussion custome to ask others to do something you do not do yourself.

Itai WAS on the radar, early on when the Rod business popped up, he had accumulated votes, even you acted against him. But I really need to read the entire debate myself again.

Also, one last question - if I am mafia, why would I be so loudmouthed and burn nearly every possible bridge? Why would I make myself such an obvious target if I knew lynching itai was a mislynch? Here's how I see the main objectives in this game - as town you wish to find the mafia whatever means necessary, as mafia you wish to survive.

I genuinely want an answer to that question, by the way, as I seem to be too foolish to find a valid answer.

I do not have much more to go on, I will need to do more reading in this whole ordeal... But do trust me, I truly am embarrassed.

Just a quick reaction (as you can imagine, I'm rather tired of mafia after typing all that):

I do not claim you are 100% scum, Damnation; I'm finding it very hard to become convinced of anything in this game, I don't really know why. I just wanted to get all this out in the open for discussion, and I'll have to think on it a lot before I reach any sort of conclusion.

I have to say, though, that this:
won't win you any favours with me. You've already said this sometime on day one, but the problem with it is that it's not really an argument. It is not unheard of for mafia to play in such a brazen manner, precisely because it's not an obvious way to play for scum. I'm getting a bit tired of this acronym, but this is pure WIFOM, nothing else.

You are being consistent, I will give you that. Anyway, I'm tired, and this will be a busy weekend, so this will be all from me for some time.

Sorry, fallen behind today as Skyward Sword came out so I haven't really followed the thread this evening. Just popped in because I noticed I had a specific reply directed at me. I'll probably catch up on #9 tomorrow.

It seems a bit too obvious and I'm probably just being paranoid but my first thought when seeing Joe had died was that he'd been picked for the nightkill simply because I'd had a vote on him for pretty much all of day one. The intended reaction being "Hmm, that SirPrimalform seemed to want Joe dead... SCUM!".

As I said, it seems a bit too obvious but it's one of the things I tried when I was in my first game (because I was mafia).

Sorry for not speaking up much lately, and unfortunately I'm going to be quiet for a bit more due to having to deal with family in the hospital. Shouldn't be more then a few days, but I feel bad for not participating much :(

So, Vitek voted on the basis of the mafia night actions along with three others, and was the only one not to remove his vote during the ensuing 150-odd posts...

Orry jumped on the wagon at #368 with "feeling very suspicious". This after stating he "will probably vote for itai" at #360. Damnation mentioned withholding a vote like this is common scumtell in post #369, but it was directed at itai...

Rod's post #69 feels weird - he misquoted (?) and asked Baz how many roles he was going to claim this time. This was so early in the game it's likely not relevent at all, but considering what followed...

SPF mentioned he "seemed to remember" ViolatorX thinking about using the Night 0 format... I'm really not sure why he mentioned that.

Itai and Joe were the ones to suggest the idea that Baz is a quack doc, which was picked up by nmillar, robb and Bard. However, the former two flipped town, so introducing the idea can't have been a scumtell as such. I do find it odd that it floated so easily though.

Quad votes itai first after the Damn/Itai explosion, and then kept his head down for the entire rest of the day...

>_> Seems like everyone has reasons to be suspected... Let's launch my shiny new vote.

Vote QuadrAlien for lurky lurking, as well as being the first to use the Itai/Damn argument as reason to vote.

Post to keep in the game.

I don't really know what to say right now. I can't pick out any one person that seems to be suspicious.

Well, jefequeso's repeated insistance that both Rod and Baz are town seems kind of fishy to me, as are his attempts to rolefish through Rod.

Possible scenario: Baz and jefequeso are in a mafia together and Rod's day one post required suspicion to be thrown from baz, so jefequeso stepped in and attempted to remove said suspicion by grouping Rod and Baz together.

Conversely, I find you insistence on finding reasons to suspect me to be rather suspicious. I don't think I'm the only person who has been insisting that Baz and Rod are town.

And I don't actually know what rolefishing means, but I'm assuming that you're referring to post 504 where I asked "Rod, do you have anything that would be useful for us?" Well, now that you mention it, that does seem like a ham-handed attempt to get Rod to disclose people's roles. I dunno...I don't have any defense for that :P.

Maybe I should just shut up for awhile. Seems like every single thing I'm saying turns out to unintentionally be some sort of magical "scumtell."

I wouldn't find them if they weren't suspicious.

Aaargh!

Very sorry everyone - laid up with Flu and a bad leg at moment, not up to doing much at all. Will try to keep an eye on and hopefully recovered within a couple o days at most!

Seems we got stuck a bit.

I've got few questions nad notes.

@SPF; why did you feel need to defend yourself from Joe's death? He wasn't pushing you har on something last day. If someone it would be me as he mentioned me several times and I can't see how could mafia want to frame you for his death.

@jefequeso; What are your experience with mafia?

@Baz; Were you blocked at night?


OK, I tried to imagine your role PM.

"Rod, you are town Roleclaim lie-detector. You know many things about people that they don't know themselves.
You know there is John Doe in town and he is purple umbrella. Many years of using and liters of rain made him bit weary and he is starting to lose his color but he is still good. He doesn't know he is purple himself.
Then there is Mister Palindrome and he is insane cop, virgin princess and gossip. He came to town recently, he looks a bit deranged but he was able to get many positions in town already but still wasn't able to find man to marry. He doesn't know he is virgin.
Next there is Mr. Walters. He is played by petrifying lizard-man and he is specific-kind-of-doctor doctor. Years of seeing dead bodies made him crack. He doesn't know he is some-kind-of-doctor.
Last there is Mr. Cervix. He is broken computer. Although fresh from service it's faulty and kills people when they touch him. He doesn't know this, though.
You can't tell that umbrella is purple, Princess is virgin, doctor lizard is some-kind-of-doctor and computer is broken. You can however tell everything else. You can tell their names, roles without modifier, you can tell your role, you can tell name of some-kind-of-doctor player, you can't even quote parts of this message."

Sorry for dramatisation but I am just stumbled how convoluted this role sounds. And as we know convlouted roles usually turns fake, right Orry?

There are 2 things that concern me a lot. First is you chose the worst player to out, IMO. You say you know only who is Mr. Walters. Why have you not outed role attached to some name instead? Wouldn't it be enough to "help" you. Yes it would.
The other thing that concerns me is end of day 1. You claimed before to save your ass and I suppose to save all the knowledge you have but at the end of the day you seemed not worried about getting NK at all although you had much more knowledge to share. I don't want to speculate why you survived, it's too much WIFOM but this is conerning me a lot.

Also, Rod and others, bear in mind all 4 players you know can't be town by any chance, otherwise this would be insanely overpowered role, having 4 confirmed players and knowing they are PR's.