This is assuming he isn't mafia and his scumbuddies do not wish him dead.

And as nmillar says, itai, a claim helps people get reason to drop their votes on you - but your seeming reluctance hints that your claim would clearly show yourself as mafia and you're unable to think off a good falseclaim. Or at least such is my opinion. Of course, it could all just be because you're not used to how we usually play here, but who knows - I personally would have expected you to at least have read some parts of mafia 2 since you seemed interested in the whole "unprovoked claiming", in which pazzer roleclaimed cop which saved him from being lynched.

Sorry wasn't clear there, "It sounds to me like backtracking".

As you were trying to walk back in your steps to explain your previous actions by "making up" reasons.

Ok, I'm at the halfway point of rereading and digging, and as this was originally a nearly post by post analysis for everyone, I got tired of it. I'm just going to comment, I've hit about 250-300 (my original post for this went bye bye because I wanted to post that I Was still alive <.<)

I'm still very confused at what caused Rodzaju to claim that he had knowledge of any sorts, as the wagon on him was probably not going to lead to a lynch because there was nothing really there but a minor slip. Baz came out and claimed unprovoked, and went from 'Maybe I have a role, maybe Rodzaju's throwing me out as a shield to keep him from being a nightkill' to 'OMG I'm the DOCTOR!!!'

Vitek's comment that Baz's doctor claim should be believed unless he was counter claimed, feels like he was either pressing the second doctor that Rodzaju eventually claimed to exist out, or he was pushing for our real doctor to claim.

Nmillar, Quad, and itai also were putting pressure for Rodzaju to come out with his information. This feels, either like a 30 car pile up of bad choices, or this could be a clever way of passing off a mafia mistake. Where, I'm not sure right now.

Going to do more reading, more in a bit.

@Orryyrro - Are you voting for me because I voted for Damnation, or because something in the content of my posts make me look scum? If it is the later, please refer to the post. I can't defend myself against your argument.

@Vitek - Not backtracking as I stated I wanted to point at a flaw in Robbeasy accusation. Another possibility. I also pointed in that post that this was NOT my reason for posting it. I am not going to explain something that had been posted two weeks ago in RVS.

@nmillar - If i am lynched, my role will be revealed soon enough. If not, I prefer it is kept secret. I am not going to give the mafia free information. Plus, the reasons people come up with to vote for me are just absurd and in my opinion, are bordering RVS.

@Damnation - I bet you would be weeping with joy if I claim cop at day 1. I haven't read the whole of mafia 2 forum, but please tell me - how many nights did pazzer survive after claiming cop?

My reasons for refusing to role claim were twofold. The first I've outlined above. The second was to see who will push me to roleclaim, and I'm not surprised to see Damnation on that list.

Additionally, I'm not surprised that it was Damnation who had came up with the rather creative argument that my refusal to claim clearly means scumtell. Of course, it could all just be because you are not used to how I play, but who knows.

@TwilightBard - When did Quad put pressure on Rodzaju?

Picking up where I left off, this one's going to be more rambling as I find interesting things. I do find it interesting that itai wanted Baz to come out and lie about his role. With Lynch all Liars referenced already I'm really curious as to what was meant by that. Lying at any point means this if you're townie: We can't trust what you say, what you claim and what you might do. If you're a cop, this means your entire role falls apart because we won't believe a word you say.

*takes a deep breath* and now I get to the current meat of all of this. And in honestly, something about how aggressive Itai is being honestly sets off alarms in my head. There's some arguments of substance, but I think the bulk of it seems to be this really aggressive tone that strikes me as unhelpful. The point by point arguments and cutting of things are just a pain in the ass to read to be honest, but that's something else entirely.

About roleclaiming. Itai, it's fairly customary to roleclaim at L-2 (Generally better to do it here then L-1 in my opinion, to save yourself from random vote from the blue) as a way of saving yourself. Good god this feels like Game 4's Day 1 all over again *Shudders*

@Itai: The post was 156, the first line when he mentioned that Rodzaju needed to be prepared to work with the consequences of revealing information. I don't know, rereading it now it felt a little fishy, like he was trying to quietly push without directly saying it.

I feel like there's more, but for the light I can't figure out what it is.

Going through everything, I'm going to unvote whoever I have voted, Vote Baz and FOS Itai

I don't know why you are constantly evading my questions. Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. I'd really hoped you'd be more helpful. I asked how many night he survived since he role claimed, not how long... I really expected a numeric answer, or something in the format of "he claimed at day X and survived Y nights till the end of the game.
However, I can understand you don't want to help me as you are sure I am mafia. So, I'll just check it out myself when I have the time when I have the time.

@TwilightBard - Are you sure about you read of post #156? QuadrAlien clearly states he won't press the subject..

If I seem to have evaded your question, I apologise, I simply misunderstood, actually. But to more presicely answer your question, he roleclaimed day 2, was lynched day 6, ending the game, as such, he survived 4 nights

Off topic really -
I got to hand it to you Damnation, you played exceptionally well on the mafia #2.

Grynn has requested a sub anyone interested pm me. I can't pm the backups from work ;(

Just to let everyone know I've just caught up from where I stalled a couple of days ago (around post 339). Sorry for being so flaky, game 8 is at a pretty crucial stage and the big argument between Mt Sharim and Damnation was daunting.

I feel I have to join in with the call for itai.sharim to claim. In mafia 4 we ended up lynching popinjay on the first day, partially because of his refusal to claim. If you really are town and lynching you would hurt us, now is the time to tell us.

I second that, itai. If you're town, it is in the town's interests to not lynch you. Which means you should fight tooth and nail to prevent it, and a claim at L-2 or L-1 is a good way to do just that.

Of course, if you claim vanilla, you'll probably get lynched anyway, but for anything else -- who knows.

But don't take this as a reason to lie, if you are vanilla then claim vanilla.

hey just thort id say sorry for lurking and sorry cos im going to keep lurking because of skyrim

This will be the last time I try dissuade you from pushing me to role claim.
I will outline my reasons below.

1. Information asymmetry - Because of the "no lying" policy, mafia players KNOW I am telling the truth, while town players do not as they might still count me as mafia. Do not be fooled by anyone who tells you that mafia players are stupid, and you can be sure that they WILL take full advantage of the asymmetry of information.

2. Consider the absurdity of some of the votes against me. Two votes are on me because of me stating that the case against nmillar is weak. The funny thing is that everyone seems to agree with me (nmillar has ZERO votes) but I still get voted for it. The third vote which is ridiculous belongs to Jefequeso who voted me for being too active (this is low, really). It all seems to me like a ploy to get a claim.

Having said that, I will comply to the town's voice of claiming if (after giving a little thought to my post) bazilisek, Vitek and nmillar still believe I should claim.

As a final note, I feel role claiming really puts the town at a disadvantage.