Ok, I've done a little bit of re-reading of things.

unvote (don't remember if I had an active vote or not)
vote Vitek

I'm completely operating on instinct since I have little to no expereince with Mafia of any kind, much less forum Mafia. But my sense of it is that Vitek marks the perfect combination of being in the middle of accusations and staying far enough away to avoid suspicion. His posts seem calculated to try and stir up argument and confusion with the least amount of actual substance possible. He's been far from transparent, but at the same time posts just enough to keep from being considered a lurker. I can't even begin to unravel the tangled threads of accusations that are the Rod vs Baz and Itai vs Damnation debates, and I'm not going to try. It's basically all just wine (I can use cool Mafia lingo too!). I suspect that Mafia members are going to be the ones sowing the seeds of argument and trying to cast suspicion on others, but an aggressive Townie will do exactly the same thing in order to root out Mafia.

I'm also a little suspicious of nmiller. The now infamous post 39 could be an innocent case of "accidently stating something as a fact rather than as a theory," or it could be a Mafia slip. Itai's defense of him is a little suspicious, especially combined with his level of aggression so far. If Vitek gets "ruled out," he's next on my suspicions list. Damnation's aggression could be explained as a sort of "make up" for basically being non-existant up until this point. I dunno. Like I said, it's just a tangled mess that I can't even begin to unravel.

I'm pretty convinced that Rod and Baz are both town, unless they're pulling some sort of ridiculous scheme together.

i feel kinda embarrassed to know that i suck so bad its suspicious

and since i don't know how to quote 2 different people i looked back and i agree with Jefequeso
unvote whoever it was
vote Vitek

I'm going to cut some content from my post aimed at Joe, sorry, post is too long :D
That's pretty much my playstyle in a nutshell, I'm vicious, aggressive and have no bars when it comes to arguing in this. Plus, I tend to come up with as many possible scenarios as I can, not in order to cause confusion, but to make sure everyone is damned clear on what kind of actions they can take, so they are not goaded into making the wrong ones.

Now, as I said, I don't think your post gives a lot to go on, and my opinion has not shirked one bit about you - like I said, you could be lying, and the impression I have of you so far tells me that you most likely are.

And in recent events, I'm not going to pound on nmillar for the time being, and I will explain why later in this post. Therefore,
unvote

itai.sharim... Oh boy, were to begin... You really stepped in it, didn't you?

Let's continue the point-by-point arguing for just a little while - this question I cannot fathom you bother to ask, we got into said rabbit hole because Rodzaju revealed information best left secret, and how did he get there? bazilisek and nmillar (Plus others, including yourself, mind you) kept pushing him for doing so. A man who is being pushed performs all the wrong actions - always consider Murphy's Law, no matter what. Rodzaju, being pounded on, said multiple times he wanted people to stop it because it didn't help, and initially many dropped of his back, main exceptions being baz and nmillar. It took still some time for nmillar to back off, and as such, nmillar assisted in pushing us into the rabbit hole

Oh dear, either you're a complete idiot or completely missed my point, or you wish to cause confusion. There is absolutely no contradiction, and why is actually very simple, anyone bothering to read just my original post and our parley will see that. I mentioned that in mafia 2, Ubivis, who falseclaimed town doctor, got loads of flak for doing so, and I therefore pointed out that baz's claim could easily also have been a falseclaim - how are we to know? As such, I pointed out the staggering similarity of unprovoked roleclaiming, yet the stark contrast in reactions. I think that's pretty much going at baz for doing his claim, and mind you, I did not attack Ubivis during game 2 for his roleclaim, I said it was stupid, and I said so about baz's claim, so do be so kind to point out the contradiction?

Your point being? My vote on nmillar is reasoned openly in post 308 - why have you not read that? And do not say you have, for it is evident you have not, otherwise you would not be making this quoted statement

Indeed you do, why else become so hostile when I attack nmillar? I have only mentioned my observations of you until now, clearly attacking nmillar cought your attention and triggered hostility?

Call me stupid if you'd like, but how exactly are these mutually exclusive? You trigger my scumdar, and it's foolish of you to protect your scumbuddy. How does me saying it's foolish of you to protect your scumbuddy omit you triggering my scumdar?

This is clearly defending nmillar. I didn't miss your point, but you somehow missed mine. He quoted flavour in the post, yes. Has he said since then that he based the "There are more mafia in this game" on that? No, he didn't, not until late. He has later said that if you follow the usual setup guidelines, then dragging in the flavour, he arrived at what he assumes to be how the setup is. His first post was still "there are more mafia in this game" - omitted completely of "I think" or "my theory is" or the like, the way he presented it was as if he thought it fact, THAT IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS! Later arguments (In this case, two days after the fact) are not solid enough to back up an earlier statement like that, simply because others cannot know if you're just attempting to cover your own ass becuase you reread the post you made and realised you made a mistake. And yes he haven't admitted to slipping, he has enforced his statement is proper, without and argumentation at the time it was made, how can you claim his theory was always based on the flavour? How can you KNOW I ask, not WHY DO YOU THINK for you obviously do KNOW it's based on the flavour, otherwise you would not have worded your post as you did. And claiming a post is based upon a quote just because it is quoted is horseshit, what I am typing here is not related to my quote of JoeSapphire's post. Part of my post was, yes, and I have made clear what parts, nmillar did NOT make it clear that "there are more mafia in this game" was refering to the flavour, or if it were based on the flavour, all he stated that was clearly based on the flavour was "pointing this out as people seem to have missed it" - which is perculiar, he was the first one to even mention multiple mafia factions, no discussion had really been delved into the subject before he mentioned it...

No, it's a protection of nmillar hidden behind an attack, otherwise your attacks would not be so much in favour of arguing solely on my points against nmillar.

Wondering why I put this here? Good. This single line:

I strongly doubt I need to requote or explain it to anyone... But I'm thinking you will ask me to anyway.

Read my just previous statement - I doubt explanation is required.

So thank you, itai.sharim, you just moved up as my number one candidate for being mafia.
vote itai.sharim

I'm starting to get the feeling that Rodzaju isn't the only one with information about other people's roles ...

@Damnation - I really don't know what I said to make you snap at me like that, but I meant no offense, and I hope none was taken.

Anyhow, back to topic - I will elaborate no further about the contradiction topic as I feel I have explained it well enough. However, if more players believe additional explanation is required I will try to explain myself better.

As for nmillar - I still think the argument against him is very weak. It seems everyone agrees with me because many have removed the vote from nmillar.

One last point I want to address before it gets out of control is the accusation made against me of quoting half sentences.
When I'm quoting half sentences it is because I feel the rest of the sentence is irrelevant. I do, however, put "..." to indicate to other players I have cut a part of the sentence so they can check for themselves and decide if it is relevant.

Well, first off, I take no offense, I am just snapping at you because I honestly do not think some of your points are either good or very well argued. Plus, the arguing should not get any further, I agree, as it would only end up in something far more horrible than we can imagine right now.

And if you disagree with my point against nmillar, fine, why not just say so instead of becoming defensive of him? I'm just wondering here.

This, however, makes me rage somewhat inside. Simply because it's a lie. You do not add elipses, you have used elipses once or twice when quoting half sentences on me - and elipses or not, they are still only half sentences (But I agree, elipses make it obvious you exclude that which you find irrelevant), and in some of those sentences, you have still chosen to omit rather important parts of them.
Anyhow, it's better to lay it rest where it is and let others pick up from here. You still appear as my number one suspect at the moment, however.

You haven't been throwing accusations around. But you have been involved in most of the bigger disputes thus far, and in such a way that it seemed that you were just posting enough to look like a participant and further the suspicion without calling undo attention to yourself. I'd be less enclined to finger you if you actually posted some detailed thoughts about things.

I've been suspicious of you for awhile, but I was sort of waiting to see if anything interesting was going to happen. With the whole Itai vs Damnation mess, I decided to go look over previous posts, and was reminded about my suspicions of you. Darkeye's immediate votechange does look incredibly suspicious from everyone else's point of view... I myself would probably jump on something like that. I don't have anything to say in my own defense.

Okay, things are starting to get a little heated round here! Where do I even begin? Rodzaju vs Bazilisek has been covered already, so it makes more sense to focus on the latest debate. I have no idea why itai.sharim has been so defensive of me, but perhaps he really is just offering his interpretation of the events so far?

Right, so I figure I should post my suspicions. That is the whole point of the game after all! Rodzaju was obviously my initial suspect after the whole "leaking information" thing, but there's no real evidence to back my suspicions. I will come back to this at some stage. Yeah, assuming I'm still alive, of course!

Damnation has obviously been very vocal since his late appearance in the game, but is it for the benefit of town? You decide! :P

So, who else? Robbeasy is normally somebody I'd like to lynch, but I think we've got over that tradition now! ;)


Then there's the age-old "lynch all lurkers" debate. Relatively speaking, Vitek, QuadrAlien and TwilightBard have been pretty quiet, but I believe some of these have given reasons for this already. Vitek is behaving rather similarly to the way he did in Mafia #3 though! ;)

Orryyrro is more vocal than he has been in past games, which is nice to see. No real suspicion here, but someone I'll always keep an eye one!

itai.sharim is starting to stand out more and more as I'm typing this. Not sure what to make of him. Something doesn't quite add up here. Perhaps he has information that the rest of us are not partial to? Slightly suspicious of him, but not enough for me to vote just yet. Another one I'll be keeping my eye on.

Cruward_darkeyes is another interesting one. That quick vote for Vitek right after jefequeso seems like an obvious scum move. Unless Vitek really is scum. I did mention earlier in this post about his behaviour being simlar to Mafia #3 ... Man, everywhere I look I see suspicious behaviour. Joesapphire and Grynn also seem quite scummy to me, which only leave SirPrimalForm, who I have no real opionion of at this moment in time.

Where did I something like this? I'd like to see some examples.

I admit I am good target for lynch because of lurking, I am sorry for that. With G8 quite active and at its peak and also with pretty serious gaming I got quite overhelmed and am not able to follow all that's going on here. I'll try to improve soon, I promise.
I will at least post my 3 top suspects for now.
I'd like it from others too. I saw it in one game I read and it was quite good thing.

1. itai.sharim
2. nmillar
3. and newly Cruward:Darkeye

Post 121 and 140 come to mind.

It's not like you've been saying anything that is wrong in and of itself. It's just the way you say it. To me it seems like just the right amount of argument without any real meat to it. You seem too eager to stay out of the limelight, but at the same time cast suspicion on others (such as Rod, who I'm almost certain isn't Mafia at this point). Are you just a somewhat aloof townie? Or a Mafia member doing a little to aid other Mafia members in their attempts to cause confusion?

Really, most of my suspicions would be nullified if you just posted some thoughts on things so I can get a sense of what you're thinking.

I picked posts from time when I was quite active. Is your problem I only asked questions without making long cases? My posts usually are short.

oooooh - lets have a heated debate...;o)

Right - a few points and reads i want to pick up on here...

Cruward - no wonder the poor guy is afraid to post - every time he does it gets jumped on...I don't really believe he can be Mafia playing the 'I dont know whats going on' card - I think he is a newbie plain and simple, yes, as nmillar said he jumped in with jefequeso straight away, but two things - its no crime to agree with someone else, and the self effacement of the line
'i feel kinda embarrassed to know that i suck so bad it's suspicious'
make me mark him down as town, plan and simple. If not then he's doing a damn good job for first time in as a player.

Rob / Baz - for some reason the pair of you seem to be linked together at the moment. I've had a big old read through the whole thread again today , and I am leaning towards Rod being Town - if Mafia had the info he seems privy to, then they would be very strong - too strong I would say.

The only thing that really stands out - and it stands out a mile - is Baz's claim. I think we were all caught up in the argument at the time - it took someone who was late to the party (Damnation) to point out that it really is a FULL claim of DOCTOR out of nowhere! What possible leap of reasoning could ever think that was in ANY way a pro town move?? I had to reread it all again , thinking I'd missed something vital, but no, I cant for the life of me see it. The only thing that makes the remotest sense is that Baz got scared Rod knew too much about him so claimed quickly -and it's only Mafia who get scared.....

Itai.sharim - I have to agree with others here - you really aren't consistent at all and are tripping yourself up left right and centre. One post I want to go back to - way back to post 77. Now you have come across as a knowledgable player of mafia - you say you have played it, but this is the first time in a forum. Posts like post #111 show a good understanding of the mechanics.
So why on earth do you ask this in post #77??
'What makes Second Day any better than the first one?'

On a reread, it jars like hell when you read that, with the knowledge since that you are actually well clued up. People might say its not a massive thing, but I believe that it only takes a single post to scream 'liar'....

Post 195, outlining possible Mafia strategies, so when you do something completely different at night you can point to that and say 'look it can't be me - I said I would do that'..

Post 296 - going back to the Rod / Baz thing again, condemning Rod, then saying you think he is town , and would be happy to let him lead lynch! Of course you would - he thinks your scumbuddy Baz is town, and is blathering info all over the place...

Finally - post #336 ..you attack Damnaton, but say 'not voting yet, as I want to wait for the response' - why? Classic Mafia action - you are basically saying 'I'm not going to lay a vote yet just in case I've outed myself, don't want to draw attention to myself that much' - Damnation called you on your post anyway pretty sharpish , and left you with no option but to vote for him to try and save some face next post up.

Damnation has you rattled, and I think with good reason. What is VERY interesting is that on more than one occasion our friend Baz has complimented you on good questions - I think you are Mafia buddies. The way you both combined in the whole Rod/Baz debate just screams it out.

vote itai.sharim - the evidence is stacked up, and I think if you flip Mafia then Baz is definitely your scumbuddy.

oh and @itai - never take offence at anything said in a Mafia game - nothing is personally meant!! Especially when it comes to Damnation - he can be a vicious bastard!! You should have seen what he did to me in Game #2...


(Totally off Topic) - like my new Blender? The old one was getting a bit tired...


Ok - let the ripping apart of my post begin, as always...;o)

A few people have said something like this about you, so it might just be your style that's setting me off. Like I said, I'm going completely on instinct rather than evidence. And you're involved in Mafia 8? That might explain some of the detached tone I've been getting from you that I took to be avoidence.

I'm not COMPLETELY convinced... but I'll let you off the hook for now:

unvote

vote itai.sharim

I really hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I think that a lot of the evidence is pointing toward you, both from my own "feelings" (which I'm not going to know the validity of until we get some real facts about who's who) and other people's more logical reasoning. Even more than Vitek, you've been right in the center of just about every single debate thus far, posting paranoid and convoluted jabs along with the best of them. Trying to put suspicion on other people? Or just being an eager beaver?

Well, I'd like a votecount to see where everyone is, but itai.sharim is seeming extremely suspicious especially with his preemptive OMGUS of Damnation, so I'll probably end up voting for itai.sharim.