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General discussion (archive)GOG Forum Mafia #9(1926 posts)(1926 posts)
(1926 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 08, 2012
@nmillar, if I propose a hypothesis as to how you receive your information, are you allowed to confirm or reject it?
Posted February 08, 2012
How I see what we have learned:

1. SirPrimalform (Chad Blain, vengeful bomb, no alignment provided)
This very much sounds like a claim mafia would make: scaring town into not lynching them. Then there is of course also the fact that Dimitar Cade was killed by a bomb; whatever SirPF actually is, his role is related to bombs somehow (post restriction). Also, is suspected by NFY. Conclusion: very suspicious.

2. Zchnique (Bojan Alero, vanilla, no alignment provided)
Cruward gave us nothing to work with and Zchinque hasn't been around for very long. The claim does not stand out much (though like nmillar, I found it slightly odd there would be a bartender and café owner in the same game). Conclusion: moderately suspicious.

3. Red Baron (Ricard Obina, Jack of all trades, no alignment provided)
Consistent with his previous claim. No one has come up with any other explanation for the Vitek kill, which is a point in RB's favour. Conclusion: mildly suspicious.

4. jefequeso (Lucia Metzen, Town Lover)
I know the "Lucia" and "Lover" parts are true from my protection on night 2. The lover role as described by jefe is not very consistent with what the wiki says about lovers (and quite frankly, seems somewhat pointless, as it does not really do anything, does it?). On the other hand, the flavour I have about jefe is very incompatible with the idea of him being scum. Conclusion: mildly suspicious.

5. NotFrenchYet (Angelo Cervi, Town Cop)
I've been reasonably sure NFY was Angelo for a very long time, so this came as no surprise. And she wasn't counterclaimed, so she obviously is the real thing. We can't be entirely sure Angelo really is on town's side, of course, but a paranoid scum cop sounds fairly ludicrous. Conclusion: not very suspicious.

6. Damnation (Gabriel Bortez, Town Vanilla)
Has been identified as town vanilla by nmillar before, though the whole thing about his role and alignment is very muddy (compare nmillar's #1136, #1138, #1168, #1175, #1269, #1299, #1391 which show a lot of flipflopping about what nmillar actually knows about him). Conclusion: quite suspicious.

7. Nmillar (Sergei Borslov, Town Vanilla + informer)
This is an interesting case. Point of interest: nmillar confirms SirPF's "vengeful bomb" claim, and this very much corresponds to his #1290 where he was talking about today's file: "I don't want to go into too much detail just yet in case I'm wrong, but something you mentioned does suggest the person I have information about is scum ... I'm nowhere near 100% sure at the moment, so I'm going to have to reference the mafia wiki before I commit to anything." Information from files 1 (Orry) and 3 (TB) is public knowledge by now, and the information on Damnation is just odd. Conclusion: I don't bloody know.

Open questions:
Who killed TwilightBard?
Who hit jefe on the head on night one, when the only roleblocker we know of was supposedly busy blocking QuadrAlien/Red_Baron (who was in turn trying to block nmillar)? Was that part of the Joe killing action?
Who is giving nmillar the files and how are they selected?

Flavour-based musings:
Orry was apparently the brains of the outfit and a role cop, which means the kills were probably not his work. This means we're looking for a strong dumb type here as the other Shattered Hand.

Suggestion:
Lynch SirPrimalform and have Damnation drop the hammer.
Posted February 08, 2012
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bazilisek: 2. Zchnique (Bojan Alero, vanilla, no alignment provided)
Cruward gave us nothing to work with and Zchinque hasn't been around for very long. The claim does not stand out much (though like nmillar, I found it slightly odd there would be a bartender and café owner in the same game). Conclusion: moderately suspicious.
Any reason for this suspicion that isn't gaming the mod?

Suggestion:
Lynch SirPrimalform and have Damnation drop the hammer.
You're quite right that SPF should be the lynch.
Posted February 08, 2012
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Zchinque: Any reason for this suspicion that isn't gaming the mod?
Moderately suspicious is the default level. I haven't seen anything that would move you from there in either direction.
Posted February 08, 2012
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Zchinque: Any reason for this suspicion that isn't gaming the mod?
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bazilisek: Moderately suspicious is the default level. I haven't seen anything that would move you from there in either direction.
Fair enough. I just got the impression from his last post that nmillar might be trying to get something rolling on me based on gaming the mod, so I was just a little miffed to see you bring it up as well.

@nmillar: Is "vanilla townie" your rolename?
Posted February 08, 2012
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bazilisek: Suggestion:
Lynch SirPrimalform and have Damnation drop the hammer.
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Zchinque: You're quite right that SPF should be the lynch.
Hmmm, I wonder if you've had the same idea as me or whether you're just being foolish. I won't elaborate just yet though, don't want to ruin it in case you're doing what I think you might be doing.
Posted February 08, 2012
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bazilisek: Suggestion:
Lynch SirPrimalform and have Damnation drop the hammer.
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SirPrimalform:
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Zchinque: You're quite right that SPF should be the lynch.
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SirPrimalform: Hmmm, I wonder if you've had the same idea as me or whether you're just being foolish. I won't elaborate just yet though, don't want to ruin it in case you're doing what I think you might be doing.
I don't know what you think I'm thinking, but the reason why you are the obvious candidate for today's lynch is pretty straight forward. Either you're lying about your role and we nab scum, or you're telling the truth and we effectively get two lynches for the price of one.
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: Hmmm, I wonder if you've had the same idea as me or whether you're just being foolish. I won't elaborate just yet though, don't want to ruin it in case you're doing what I think you might be doing.
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Zchinque: I don't know what you think I'm thinking, but the reason why you are the obvious candidate for today's lynch is pretty straight forward. Either you're lying about your role and we nab scum, or you're telling the truth and we effectively get two lynches for the price of one.
I'll wait for Baz to chime in before I explain what I mean then.
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: I'll wait for Baz to chime in before I explain what I mean then.
I'm not sure what you want to hear from me, though. My reasoning is pretty much the same. I find you suspicious, therefore I want to lynch you, and in case you are telling the truth about your role, your lynch is a great opportunity to kill off another suspect in one go. I picked Damnation for that because if he's vanilla town, his death is no big loss, and if he's not (and I do find him rather suspicious), it's one scum down. Also, both your and Damnation's death can uncover more facts for cross-checking nmillar's claims.
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: I'll wait for Baz to chime in before I explain what I mean then.
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bazilisek: I'm not sure what you want to hear from me, though. My reasoning is pretty much the same. I find you suspicious, therefore I want to lynch you, and in case you are telling the truth about your role, your lynch is a great opportunity to kill off another suspect in one go. I picked Damnation for that because if he's vanilla town, his death is no big loss, and if he's not (and I do find him rather suspicious), it's one scum down. Also, both your and Damnation's death can uncover more facts for cross-checking nmillar's claims.
Ok, since neither of you are thinking what I'm thinking I might as well tell you.


Basically, if Damnation is mafia he'll know I'm town and therefore telling the truth and will refuse to be the hammer. I don't think you'll manage to persuade any scum to hammer me and as such this will be two mislynches for the price of one.
I would normally be fine with being lynched in order to clear things up, but in this case I am literally the worst possible lynch (because there's no way scum will hammer me).
Posted February 08, 2012
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bazilisek: I'm not sure what you want to hear from me, though. My reasoning is pretty much the same. I find you suspicious, therefore I want to lynch you, and in case you are telling the truth about your role, your lynch is a great opportunity to kill off another suspect in one go. I picked Damnation for that because if he's vanilla town, his death is no big loss, and if he's not (and I do find him rather suspicious), it's one scum down. Also, both your and Damnation's death can uncover more facts for cross-checking nmillar's claims.
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SirPrimalform: Ok, since neither of you are thinking what I'm thinking I might as well tell you.


Basically, if Damnation is mafia he'll know I'm town and therefore telling the truth and will refuse to be the hammer. I don't think you'll manage to persuade any scum to hammer me and as such this will be two mislynches for the price of one.
I would normally be fine with being lynched in order to clear things up, but in this case I am literally the worst possible lynch (because there's no way scum will hammer me).
If the designated hammerer refuses to, they will of course be lynched in your stead. Unless you are scum and the designated hammerer is your scumbuddy, no one has anything to gain by refusing to hammer you.
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: Basically, if Damnation is mafia he'll know I'm town and therefore telling the truth and will refuse to be the hammer. I don't think you'll manage to persuade any scum to hammer me and as such this will be two mislynches for the price of one.
The idea is that if he does not want to do what the majority says, the majority lynches him instead. This means that if he's scum, he's locked into a lose-lose situation anyway, and in that case, he would probably be willing to drop the hammer on town-you, because that would buy his scumbuddies (if any) some more time.
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: Basically, if Damnation is mafia he'll know I'm town and therefore telling the truth and will refuse to be the hammer. I don't think you'll manage to persuade any scum to hammer me and as such this will be two mislynches for the price of one.
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bazilisek: The idea is that if he does not want to do what the majority says, the majority lynches him instead. This means that if he's scum, he's locked into a lose-lose situation anyway, and in that case, he would probably be willing to drop the hammer on town-you, because that would buy his scumbuddies (if any) some more time.
Hmm, forcing him with threat of lynch also means that if he's scum then it's in his interest to lynch me (take a townie with him). Wow, so we're inevitably losing one townie. Good going guys!

I'd like to point out that two people have all but confirmed me as being a bomb. Only a bastard mod would make mafia member a bomb (punish the town for a correct lynch?).
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: Hmm, forcing him with threat of lynch also means that if he's scum then it's in his interest to lynch me (take a townie with him). Wow, so we're inevitably losing one townie. Good going guys!
But we have a pretty decent chance of nailing one scum in the process. That's a good trade-off. Much better than a regular lynch.
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SirPrimalform: I'd like to point out that two people have all but confirmed me as being a bomb. Only a bastard mod would make mafia member a bomb (punish the town for a correct lynch?).
If I'm reading the situation with the Gambiani mafia correctly, that wasn't an example of perfectly above-board modding, either. This is not much of an argument.
Posted February 08, 2012
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SirPrimalform: Hmm, forcing him with threat of lynch also means that if he's scum then it's in his interest to lynch me (take a townie with him). Wow, so we're inevitably losing one townie. Good going guys!
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bazilisek: But we have a pretty decent chance of nailing one scum in the process. That's a good trade-off. Much better than a regular lynch.
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SirPrimalform: I'd like to point out that two people have all but confirmed me as being a bomb. Only a bastard mod would make mafia member a bomb (punish the town for a correct lynch?).
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bazilisek: If I'm reading the situation with the Gambiani mafia correctly, that wasn't an example of perfectly above-board modding, either. This is not much of an argument.
I give up. I can't think of any way to dissuade you. I reserve the right to shout "I told you so!" if Damn turns out to be town as well though. :P
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General discussion (archive)GOG Forum Mafia #9(1926 posts)(1926 posts)
(1926 posts)