Still alive... having trouble finding time to concentrate at the moment - Bard, will respond to your question asap.

Haha, and I thought it was some kind of cryptoclaim!

A quick obersvation before I start writing: I'm at L-3, and Bard had votes and pressure earlier. But as soon as I unvoted Bard and voted Robbeasy, Primal did the same, and Orry said he was prepared to vote Robb based on others' reasons. Combined with Baz's earlier vote, that puts Robbeasy almost instantly at L-3 as well, with an L-4 hovering the background.

... That strikes me as really odd. It looks like a mafia ploy to throw suspicion on me, by neglecting to push me properly and then leaping on the next available target (that way it looks like I'M scum because people weren't eager to push me.)

~

@Bard:
I agree with you that Baz's full claim was fairly unprovoked, but that said, at the time it was made pretty obvious by Rodzaju that he was a power role. I still think he's leaning town because in my current understanding of the set-up, a mafia (secretly-paranoid) doctor makes no sense whatsoever, and he and Jefe pretty much confirmed each others' roles.

I don't really know what else to say. The reasons Baz and Baron suspected you weren't mine, so it doesn't make sense to analyse your defence too closely, for fear I start projecting and seeing thing that aren't there. You defend yourself comprehensively and well, but against reasons that I don't use to suspect you.

However, amidst the misunderstandings in the WOT exchange with Baron, you mentioned you had "no clue how to handle the situation" with Rod (#1019):
So I went back, and I found this in #728 which seems to suggest you DID have some ideas on the situation, ideas which were actually rather benevolent:
My read of this post is that you weren't "confused" at all about him. This also obliquely justifies your hammer as a LaL vote, since the above trust relies on his information being trustworthy. But it also contradicts what you said above about being confused about him.

~

I'm going to
Unvote Robbeasy
as I'm more than a little uneasy (;D) about how quickly that wagon appeared, but I'm perfectly prepared to revote.

Current reads:
Leaning Town: Baz, jefe
Neutral: Orry
Confused: Primal, Damnation, Zchinque
Leaning mafia: Robbeasy, Bard, nmillar

* Confused about Damnation because I noticed in #873 that he agreed with me that Bard was looking suspicious, but didn't react to it with (what I'm assuming is) the usual "kicking the hornet's nest" approach, as he later did with me, and previously did with itai.

EBWP: Robb's at L-3 with an L-2 hovering in the background. Sorry. Can't count. Or rather, can count, but counted the wrong way... Why no, classical logic is not at all my strong point.

Post 728 was before Rodzaju admitted to lying; Post 1019 was afterwards. I don't see any contradiction here - the confusion about Rodzaju's play only came about after it was evident he'd been lying.

I'm not convinced TwilightBard is town either, but falsifying evidence is pretty scummy, and you're staying at the top of my suspects list.

Falsifying? What the...?

a) I did not modify any of the quotes I posted.

b) You seem to have misread me. Let me try that again:

Reiterated, up until the point Rod admitted to lying (i.e. BEFORE he admitted to lying), Bard said he had no clue how to handle the situation.

As you point out, #728 is BEFORE Rod admitted.

The content of that post doesn't make me think he's confused.

I'm really not sure what this means, but I thought it worth pointing out since I could do with giving people more posts to go on and more examples of my thought processes.

The point I'm making is he doesn't claim to be confused until after it had been revealed that Rodzaju was lying. Post 728 was before this, so I assume TB wasn't confused at this stage.

TB doesn't claim to be confused about the situation until 1019, and to be quite frank, TB wasn't the only one confused by Rodzaju's antics.

You've picked out posts either side of Rodzaju's confession, so you cannot accuse someone of contradicting themselves after what was a very confusing turn of events.

'Falsifying' was the wrong word to use, but you are misleading people by ignoring the events that happened between the two posts you quoted.

Hey, I'm just popping in to say I'm still around, and I'm not actually lurking. Been fixating since new years to do my exams (passed my first one today), and basically forgot GOG even existed during my revision. Got a bit of time now though, so I'll get digging into it once more, though I will likely disappear again in a few days a reappear at the end of january :)

Hope you haven't missed my insane ramblings too much, but you're likely to get one soon :p

[[PRE-POST EDIT: the following is now irrelevant, but left in for clarity]]
...Ah. We seem to be looking at Bard's text and coming up with very different interpretations. There's a key issue of timing that we're apparently on opposite ends on. I'm taking "up until the point where" to mean the same as "before". You apparently aren't (frankly I really don't see how it could mean anything different, so I'm having trouble understanding your point of view). Would appreciate some clarification from the man himself here before this gets out of hand.
[[end irrelevance]]

I don't believe I did ignore the posts either side. In fact I acknowledged that Rod's admission of lying justified Bard's hammer vote, which implies I was taking into account the posts between.

Thinking about it now, I agree, it's a weak point to make - it boils down to "he said he was confused, but it doesn't look like he was". That's as solid as two playing cards resting against each other. But I think I'd like some input on it all the same.

Haha, your misunderstanding of what he wrote made me laugh.

Good to hear damnation and following him a litle along that line I am fairly certain I¨ll be less active in a few days with more exams coming up as well.

Last thing; you forgot me on your reads NFY, but maybe you just don't have one? Find that a little tough to believe considering how much I been kicking the dead turtle and rolling around in all the mess I could find, but hey - One never knows.

Oh rats, I knew there would be someone I missed..! Sorry!

I consider youuu... Leaning mafia, I think. I'm aware that makes four. But after that mess with claiming the kill and exchanging reasons with Bard as to no nightkill, I can't in good conscience say you're leaning town. You were quick to apply pressure on me after Xmas following nmillar's lead, but I can't seem to find any of your own reasons to suspect me other than my response to your paraphrased PM - a point originally made by Damnation.

In fact, let me ask you straight up: Why do you find me suspect?

Reread (or well, just read, really) commencing. I hope to get through day 1 today. depending on how much I have to comment on, there might not be a post until tomorrow even if I do.

And in a stint of shameless self promotion:
Please go and read this post, and tell me what you would like to see in my next mafia game.

Alright, before I go any farther, there are a few things that I think need to be cleared up for how I'm pulling my analysis of this out. I'm gonna underline the questions, just to make things easier.

The first off is, just how trustworthy is what Rod says? Well, I think there are a few lies, but I'm going to say there's at least a fair amount of truth here. I think the lies are there more to play into his agenda. There are 2 lies that I think stand out. The first is Rod's confirmation that Baz is the town doctor, and I'll get to that shortly when I do the actual analysis. The second, is the most obvious, his role.

The Short version The easiest way of describing what Rod was doing, was fufilling his lyncher win condition (with whoever Angelo is), while gaining an ability from his backup role that would keep the town from lynching him (Getting Baz NK'd)

Additional Explanations First off, I don't know how Rod had Baz pegged as Denton so easily, or well, why he had that. This is information that I can't really get, and I'm not certain how important it seems. Another explanation I need to bring now is this has nothing to do with anyone's role. I'm keeping my own views of everyone else as far from this as I can, and focusing on Rodzaju alone.

How did he go about this? Well, at first it seems that his throwing out of Angelo Cervi and Denton Walters' names was an attempt to draw attention off of himself. With 4 votes on him, all it would take is a quick bandwagon and he could find himself lynched.

No, I don't really think so. Not with the people voting for him and those sitting in the background (People not on the Rodzaju wagon at that point: Primal, Ory, Cruward, Grynn, Jefe, Baz, Damn, Joe, nmillar, and myself). I think he was safe from a quick lynch, to be quite honest. What I think his intention was, was to get a reaction from someone that would give him who Angelo is. Tossing the other name was simply to hide his target.

Pegging Baz as Walters was I believe to be mainly an attempt at drawing Mafia eyes to Baz. His next few posts continue to push that Baz has some power role, again, this works towards drawing eyes on Baz for being a possible NK.

Why press Baz instead of trying to find Angelo? I think that the answer is fairly clear. Mafia Cop, while not common, is easier to call attention too without intimate knowledge of the setup. That and there are numerous sanities of cop that can be anti-town, thus leading to Angelo being an easier lynch to push. Trying to push Baz would reveal his role as the doctor, and push the potential lynch into a dead zone, as it would look really bad if you keep pushing the lynch after the claim.

Baz claiming at 227 was probably a stroke of pure luck for Rod, and probably put him in a good position to push Baz even more. A few posts later, and Rod is pointing out that Baz isn't a standard doctor, but that he's unable to explain fully. And on post 232 expressed his view that Baz wouldn't survive the night, and pointed out that if Baz flipped standard, that Rod would vote to lynch himself.

Now, why would Rod push that Baz is town when later he claims that he doesn't have an alignment. I think that now this is the easiest question to answer. He pushed Baz as town to try to hold him up as a sacrifice. He'd gain power as a doctor and would be able to use it if he got pushed to claim later, which would keep him safe until he could lynch Angelo. He got lucky that Baz claimed, and simply continued in his efforts to get him NK'd.

The claim that there was more then 1 Doc has already been discussed, and I am of the belief that he meant himself, the idea being that Baz's death wouldn't harm the town. This could also be used if Baz wasn't killed, as he'd be able to use that point to get Baz lynched, fulfilling his win condition in another manner.

I do find it interesting to note that it wasn't Rod who came up with the list until day 2, it was pushed day 1 by itai, but I'm not sure of what importance this was.

The major things in day 2 were his 2 claims, and his admittance that he doesn't have the alignments. I think he didn't have them all along, and was admitting to it so he could get his thoughts on Angelo out without worry from the alignments, or catching himself in a lie. I think his reason to falseclaim is a fairly obvious one, he didn't want to get lynched for being a lyncher (his information on Baz would probably have been enough to make him a big threat), and by the time he admitted the truth he was as good as lynched anyway.

I don't know how useful all of this might be, I'm hoping it is, but the whole thing has bothered me for a bit, so I felt like getting out a theory that makes sense, and this strikes me as one of the best ways to put everything together.

Hmm yea, I like the way your explaining his strange actions. Sounds in my ears like it could be something along those lines he (Rodzaju) was thinking as well. But why he made it so complicated still stands out to be.. For instance why all the fuzz about his role being suspicious if he claimed it, then claimed the drugdealer? I would have just gone with networker alone or something. And hell, if he had the idea that he could use his own doctor ability later, then I bet he would have a very very hard time trying to convince anyone about it, after he stated a false claim and showed prior knowledge to targets. Would mean that he would have to explain what his true role was for it to make any sense, and then the fact that he would have gotten the doc killed would be a huge thing against him. But still, I can imagine Rodzaju doing something like that.