Posted November 09, 2011
Just don't think a magic wand is related to a fortune teller. But this is Joe so who knows. I do believe your claim though.
pazzer
Wildcard
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
muttly13
I must break you
Registered: Aug 2011
From United States
Posted November 10, 2011
Just a heads up before I forget... I will likely not be posting Friday and Saturday, and maybe not Sunday but I am hoping to get back by the evening (US that is). Heading out for a long weekend trip with the family.
JoeSapphire
Consultant Liar
Registered: Jun 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted November 10, 2011
The air is becoming slightly stale. The wind has died.
Day Four Fourth Votecount
With eight alive it takes five votes to lynch.
1 - Muttly13 (cast by Vitek)
Not Voting - xyem, SirPrimalform, Muttly13, LittleRabbit, Rodzajuly, Pazzer, NotFrenchYet.
Muttly13 is closest to lynch at L-4
Thanks for letting us know Muttly won't poke you. (actually I've been a bit rubbish recently at poking haven't I? I apologise.)
To clarify, either unvote OR Unvote [player] is acceptable, but the latter is preferred by THIS mod.
Day Four Fourth Votecount
With eight alive it takes five votes to lynch.
1 - Muttly13 (cast by Vitek)
Not Voting - xyem, SirPrimalform, Muttly13, LittleRabbit, Rodzajuly, Pazzer, NotFrenchYet.
Muttly13 is closest to lynch at L-4
Thanks for letting us know Muttly won't poke you. (actually I've been a bit rubbish recently at poking haven't I? I apologise.)
To clarify, either unvote OR Unvote [player] is acceptable, but the latter is preferred by THIS mod.
Vitek
Master of Karate and friendship for everyone
Registered: Apr 2009
From British Indian Ocean Territory
elebutterfly
avaunt!
Registered: Oct 2011
From Belgium
Posted November 10, 2011
@Xyem thanks for taking the time to respond to all that - I'm still not sure I made the right decision posting such a massive thought dump. More on that story later when I've digested it.
pazzer: @NotFrenchYet did Violator give a reason he believed Orry's claim?
What do you think the situation that would explain where SirPrimalform saw little girl is? I have permission from Joe to copy-paste from the Mason's chat, so here's what Violator said verbatim, as it were:
As for the second point, the only time I can think of that someone might have already seen that exact phrase before is if it's already been discussed before. The phrase doesn't appear anywhere in the thread (unless Rabbit breadcrumbed it or something.) The only place he could possibly have seen the phrase "Little Girl" would be in a private chat with Rabbit. And since he's not a Mason, that leaves the scumchat... But I'm not sure. It doesn't make sense for Primal to wonder out loud about it for that many posts unless it's a bloody big slip... Rabbit didn't try and save it either. So... That was my thought. But I'm really, really not sure about it.
Also, now Vitek's the one being inconsistent:
Then:
Could be a case of do as I say, not as I do, but this is such a delicate stage of game that it stands out...
What do you think the situation that would explain where SirPrimalform saw little girl is?
Problem is I hardly had the chance to play due to my schedule...
Cant say I got a scum vibe from you actually, I thought It was pazzer after that lelilow claim.
I find baz's play to be very scummy in this one
Mutley reeks of lyncher
Pazzer Unsure
I cant see orryyro lying with that claim
I think Vitek is town, TB maybe though Im hesitant with people who seem to hold my hand after the last game.
I think you may be targeted for the day 2 lynch, If you get to much heat I'll support that I can confirm your town but wont reveal the role.
I should stress these were N1 reads. For me, this just confirms the idea that the N1 kill was entirely random. Cant say I got a scum vibe from you actually, I thought It was pazzer after that lelilow claim.
I find baz's play to be very scummy in this one
Mutley reeks of lyncher
Pazzer Unsure
I cant see orryyro lying with that claim
I think Vitek is town, TB maybe though Im hesitant with people who seem to hold my hand after the last game.
I think you may be targeted for the day 2 lynch, If you get to much heat I'll support that I can confirm your town but wont reveal the role.
As for the second point, the only time I can think of that someone might have already seen that exact phrase before is if it's already been discussed before. The phrase doesn't appear anywhere in the thread (unless Rabbit breadcrumbed it or something.) The only place he could possibly have seen the phrase "Little Girl" would be in a private chat with Rabbit. And since he's not a Mason, that leaves the scumchat... But I'm not sure. It doesn't make sense for Primal to wonder out loud about it for that many posts unless it's a bloody big slip... Rabbit didn't try and save it either. So... That was my thought. But I'm really, really not sure about it.
Also, now Vitek's the one being inconsistent:
Then:
Could be a case of do as I say, not as I do, but this is such a delicate stage of game that it stands out...
littlerabbit
*nibble nibble*
Registered: Oct 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted November 10, 2011
No I just forgot to cut them out, sorry.
In response to some comments that I very handily only confirmed Rod, I would like to draw attention to my breadcrumbing in post 521...
Also someone asked what the wand looked like, trying not to paraphrase too closely, I can tell you that it is made of wood and has strange symbols burned into it. I could only gather from this that Rod was a magician of some kind, so I looked it up, but couldn't decide if that meant he was good or bad, though it seemed like a more town role to me (magicians can swap the roles of two players of their choice).
I really am struggling with reads here! If I had to choose the mafia now, I'd say that mutly and pazzer look to me the most suspicious, but I can't really provide any definitive evidence. Will do another post troll later on I think and see what I can come up with.
RL is getting busy for me though now, so not sure when I can post properly again, will try and make it sooner rather than later though!
In response to some comments that I very handily only confirmed Rod, I would like to draw attention to my breadcrumbing in post 521...
Also someone asked what the wand looked like, trying not to paraphrase too closely, I can tell you that it is made of wood and has strange symbols burned into it. I could only gather from this that Rod was a magician of some kind, so I looked it up, but couldn't decide if that meant he was good or bad, though it seemed like a more town role to me (magicians can swap the roles of two players of their choice).
I really am struggling with reads here! If I had to choose the mafia now, I'd say that mutly and pazzer look to me the most suspicious, but I can't really provide any definitive evidence. Will do another post troll later on I think and see what I can come up with.
RL is getting busy for me though now, so not sure when I can post properly again, will try and make it sooner rather than later though!
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Vitek
Master of Karate and friendship for everyone
Registered: Apr 2009
From British Indian Ocean Territory
Posted November 10, 2011
...
Could be a case of do as I say, not as I do, but this is such a delicate stage of game that it stands out...
Rod's post I read as serious and saw no indication of being not-so-serious.
It COULD take you so much time to realise it. Such things happen.
muttly13
I must break you
Registered: Aug 2011
From United States
Posted November 10, 2011
I find this so aggravating as it assumes I am an idiot. At least accuse me of being a Jester, that way I wouldnt be a total moron. My own fault I suppose. Anyway, just venting. Since its slow today and I dont want to go away for a few days not having acted, I will...
vote Rodzaju
based on my prior posts and my group theory with Vitek and Rabbit. Personally I am more confident in Viteks guilt but since I believe there to be more support for the Rod lynch, and I feel they are both guilty, I will take the step and get the ball rolling.
vote Rodzaju
based on my prior posts and my group theory with Vitek and Rabbit. Personally I am more confident in Viteks guilt but since I believe there to be more support for the Rod lynch, and I feel they are both guilty, I will take the step and get the ball rolling.
elebutterfly
avaunt!
Registered: Oct 2011
From Belgium
Posted November 11, 2011
Okay, I thought some more about my xyem case. My argument I think is built on the premise that his play is by and large very anti-town. Responses below (long post - I quoted completely to avoid confusion). Since we're drifting still, I thought I'd take the time to respond and apply some pressure to the replies to see if they hold up.
NotFrenchYet: What posts there are are not that substantial, and give the impression of contributing to discussion without actually advancing any theories. E.g. post 516 gives no opinion on Pazzer while seeming to do so (my underlining) - 
xyem: You just completely ignored everything after 'and', didn't you?
I was advancing a theory.. that pazzer knows more about the game setup than anyone else which was suspicious to me. I threw the idea out there to see if anyone would agree that it was suspicious. It's the phrasing that bothers me. You didn't need to mention that either he's acting in town's interest (which implies he's town), or he's scum and knows more about the setup. It comes across as you being reluctant to express an opinion on him and/or to pressure him. In addition, you seemed quite keen to advance the theory that there are only two mafia. Do YOU know something about the game's setup?
NotFrenchYet: Another example is the contradiction in the power roles / experienced players question. xyem: What? My "contradictory comment" wasn't even in defense. I was just pointing out that your reasoning was very flawed. It is far more reasonable that we were still alive because we didn't have power roles than because of our votes. It has nothing to do with being experienced players or not, it was just flawed reasoning. Nice job dodging the issue..! The 'defence' aspect, and indeed my/rod's "flawed reasoning", are not the most important part of this. (By the way, I interpretted it as defence because this was a response to the post in which I suggested you and rabbit might be scum.)
My point is that in one post you suggest the mafia targetted the experienced players, yet in another you implicitly suggest that the mafia knew who had power roles (players who stayed off the wagon are alive because they didn't have power roles, which implies the mafia must have known they didn't have power roles.) You're turning your own argument into a circle which renders it useless for town.
xyem: Yes, because it is far more likely that I would mention my "fake" post restriction (#66) before finding out that other people had post restrictions which turned out to be real than it to actually be a real post restriction. It's possible... Twilight suggested the mafia could be trying to hide behind post restrictions. Rod has already mentioned that the mafia would be unlikely to drawn attention to themselves with a restriction ; why couldn't this be a double-bluff? You've certainly drawn enough attention to it...
NotFrenchYet: c) Speaking of which: he claims to want to avoid another argument: [snip]
... but pressured me in order to get a response to the mafia-warned-off-the-bandwagon issue, first by posting something I interpreted as quite rude and therefore ignored (#564), then by voting for me. I responded to the vote pressure, but didn't answer the question (#597). He removed his vote anyway (#581). I can only conclude that he was more after an argument than the information.*xyem: You ignored that because you thought it was rude? I thought you didn't respond because you didn't want to draw attention to the fact that you did exactly what you said you wasn't going to do.
Actually, I voted for you to get a response. You gave me a response, saying that you didn't comment on it because you wanted to focus on pressuring pazzer for information. I explicitly stated that I was removing the vote so you could continue your plan. If I was after an argument, I would have continued to pester you, not dropped it so we could get some information to use. Your conclusion is, quite demonstrably, miles off. If by "explicitly stated" you mean this:
... I see no mention of you removing your vote to let me continue my plan. I just read it as irritation, and wondered why you would be annoyed at that - I wondered if you were expecting me to react in a stronger way. Continuing to pester me about it after I responded would have been horribly obvious.
NotFrenchYet: d) Has not yet offered any real reads - Rabbit pointed out in her original case on D2 that this is supposed to be scumtell... xyem: I don't have "real reads" because I'm new to the game and I haven't had any positive feedback on my suspicions. In game #7, pushing my own suspicion without feedback got a fellow townie killed. Guess what? I'm playing this one more cautiously because I don't want that to happen again! Oh come on, that's no excuse..! There are four of us who are new to the game, and it's not stopping the rest of us. Furthermore, I pushed my own suspicion with positive feedback on D2 and it helped get Orry killed. I don't want that to happen again either, and I think it's obvious I'm playing more cautiously, but there's a difference between "pushing suspicion" and offering reads.
That response pushed you up a notch. Not offering your reads on D4 "because I'm new" doesn't sit right at all - all the more worrying when a) we've been at this for a month now, and b) you're actually the most experienced of the new folks since you played in GOG game 7.
NotFrenchYet: Now a question to you (I'm taking your unvote on pazzer to mean your not pursuing that any longer).. why have you decided to wait until now to bring up this? I could have explained this (and been corrected) ages ago :/ You answered your own question... the pazzer case tailed off, and we've been drifing ever since, each person persuing their own ideas. I waited a) to avoid being accused of pouncing on you, and b) because I wanted to make the case as comprehensive as possible to avoid being accused of twisting things and faulty reasoning.
###
More "unhelpful" play moments:
xyem: TwillightBard: First person to vote for ViolatorX (second vote in the game). Unlikely to mean anything as it was RVS stage but I'm keeping it in mind anyway.
littlerabbit: Revenge vote on ViolatorX. Could be a newbie mistake, though I doubt the other mafia would have allowed it. These votes were posts #4 and #6 respectively, 100% pure distilled RVS. What was the point in noting that?
#34 and #52 introduce the deadline bemoaning...
On D2, #342 presents a case for lynching the mod:
xyem: Joe's rules are interfering with the gameplay. If Orry is being forced to claim something he is not, he's lying and if town 'never lies', Joe is making him look scummy. Another perfect example is NotFrenchYet's comment in #263 regarding 'baa' (originally 'b', then 'a', Joe) where he goes "Black Sheep, anyone?". If I am town, Joe is making me look scummy and if I am scum, Joe would have been pointing it out. Joe shouldn't be doing anything other than moderating the game.
And these are just the ones we know about.
He's also continuing with the inappropriate deadlines despite protest against them and not having mentioned them before the game.
He's behaving exactly the way you wouldn't want someone in power to behave. His reasoning from the báa-ification was that he wanted me to spout a load of nonsense. When he found out how I was doing it (getting the computer to do it for me), I asked him if he would drop that restriction because it was just wasting my time and everyone knew why I was doing it anyway.. he declined to.
He's power tripping and it is screwing up this game. We should be figuring out the mafia básed on what people say of their own accord, not on what they have to say. I came here to play a game of mafia with other people, not with a bunch of puppets run by the mod. #658 threatens Vitek with a vote for... personal issues? It's not the first time xyem has used his vote like this. See D1...
Phew... So again, my case is largely based on the absence of producive posts - the next best thing to lurking.
I was advancing a theory.. that pazzer knows more about the game setup than anyone else which was suspicious to me. I threw the idea out there to see if anyone would agree that it was suspicious.
My point is that in one post you suggest the mafia targetted the experienced players, yet in another you implicitly suggest that the mafia knew who had power roles (players who stayed off the wagon are alive because they didn't have power roles, which implies the mafia must have known they didn't have power roles.) You're turning your own argument into a circle which renders it useless for town.
... but pressured me in order to get a response to the mafia-warned-off-the-bandwagon issue, first by posting something I interpreted as quite rude and therefore ignored (#564), then by voting for me. I responded to the vote pressure, but didn't answer the question (#597). He removed his vote anyway (#581). I can only conclude that he was more after an argument than the information.*
Actually, I voted for you to get a response. You gave me a response, saying that you didn't comment on it because you wanted to focus on pressuring pazzer for information. I explicitly stated that I was removing the vote so you could continue your plan. If I was after an argument, I would have continued to pester you, not dropped it so we could get some information to use. Your conclusion is, quite demonstrably, miles off.
... I see no mention of you removing your vote to let me continue my plan. I just read it as irritation, and wondered why you would be annoyed at that - I wondered if you were expecting me to react in a stronger way. Continuing to pester me about it after I responded would have been horribly obvious.
That response pushed you up a notch. Not offering your reads on D4 "because I'm new" doesn't sit right at all - all the more worrying when a) we've been at this for a month now, and b) you're actually the most experienced of the new folks since you played in GOG game 7.
###
More "unhelpful" play moments:
littlerabbit: Revenge vote on ViolatorX. Could be a newbie mistake, though I doubt the other mafia would have allowed it.
#34 and #52 introduce the deadline bemoaning...
On D2, #342 presents a case for lynching the mod:
And these are just the ones we know about.
He's also continuing with the inappropriate deadlines despite protest against them and not having mentioned them before the game.
He's behaving exactly the way you wouldn't want someone in power to behave. His reasoning from the báa-ification was that he wanted me to spout a load of nonsense. When he found out how I was doing it (getting the computer to do it for me), I asked him if he would drop that restriction because it was just wasting my time and everyone knew why I was doing it anyway.. he declined to.
He's power tripping and it is screwing up this game. We should be figuring out the mafia básed on what people say of their own accord, not on what they have to say. I came here to play a game of mafia with other people, not with a bunch of puppets run by the mod.
Phew... So again, my case is largely based on the absence of producive posts - the next best thing to lurking.
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted November 11, 2011
Haha, I copied and pasted my post because I wanted to re-ask the question but forgot to delete the second bit.
elebutterfly
avaunt!
Registered: Oct 2011
From Belgium
Posted November 11, 2011
Sorry, I could have sworn I already mentioned that..! It was N1. I knew I would be talking to the Old Woman, but had no idea who it was. Presumably Violator also knew he'd be talking to the Fairy, because he initially thought it would be pazzer after he dropped "lalilulelo", but he didn't know who actually had the role.
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted November 11, 2011
I inferred it from some things ViolatorX said but I wanted confirmation. :P
You're now probably the closest we have to a confirmed townie given that no one's come out and said "No, I'm the other mason!".
Mildly suspicious of littlerabbit, but far more suspicious of xyem, rod and muttly but I'm starting to lose track of my reasons so I have to have another read of the thread.
You're now probably the closest we have to a confirmed townie given that no one's come out and said "No, I'm the other mason!".
Mildly suspicious of littlerabbit, but far more suspicious of xyem, rod and muttly but I'm starting to lose track of my reasons so I have to have another read of the thread.
elebutterfly
avaunt!
Registered: Oct 2011
From Belgium
Posted November 11, 2011
... I never even noticed that. Nice spot! ((Out of game, my companion cube doodle avatar has become horribly appropriate...! Why, why...))
JoeSapphire: Day Four Third Votecount
With eight alive it takes five votes to lynch.
1 - Muttly13 (cast by Vitek)
1 - Pazzer (cast by NotFrenchYet)
Not Voting - xyem, SirPrimalform, Muttly13, LittleRabbit, Rodzaju, Pazzer.
Muttly13 is closest to lynch at L-4 If Muttly's closest, pazzer must have been at L-5. So at least we know that Rod's Diviner roleclaim is genuine...
Rabbit's magic wand still bothers me...
I'm starting to get suspicious of everyone again..! Mostly xyem (see above), Muttly (the very model of inconsistency with his suspicions), pazzer (where did he go?), Rabbit (mostly the wand thing), and Vitek (cases of the cyclic arguments I pointed out with xyem).
Muttly's early softclaim of baker might be one of those establishing softclaims Baz mentioned, but since this is his first time I'm not so sure.
Pazzer's behaviour is still very, very strange. "Who's up for a mass claim?" then insta-claims, then behaves extremely reluctantly when asked for more information. Also points out that all townies are effectively at L-2, meaning we should be careful with votes, but then switches his vote all over the show. He also mistyped the night he was supposed to have protected Baz - perfectly possible that it was an honest mistake, but still...
##Fact dump:##
Role sheet Mk III:
Register of the Living:
1. Rodzaju (? TOWN: DIVINER) "Fortune Teller"
2. NotFrenchYet (? TOWN : ? MASON) "Fairy"
4. SirPrimalform (? TOWN : ? VANILLA) "Royal Knight"
5. Xyem (? : ?) "Sheep / ????"
8. Vitek (? : ?) "Night Watchman"
9. Pazzer (? TOWN: ? MIRACLE MAKER) "Apothecary"
10 Muttly13 (? TOWN: ? VANILLA) "Baker"
12. LittleRabbit (? TOWN: ? FLAVOUR THIEF) "Little Girl"
Register of the Dead:
0. JoeSapphire, passed on pregame.
6. ViolatorX, went to sleep Night I (TOWN: MASON) "Old Woman"
7. Orryyrro, went to the rose cottage Day II (TOWN: COP) "Poor Blind Jack / King"
11. TwilightBard, left us Night II (TOWN: DOCTOR) "Enchanted Apple Tree"
3. Bazilisek, headed home Night III (TOWN: TRACKER) "Wily Stableboy"
Order of votes on the D2 Orry wagon:
Primal (#280),
Frenchie (#283),
Vitek (#286),
Rod (#288),
Rod unvotes (#311),
Rod revotes (416),
Muttly (#419),
Pazzer (#424)
Estimated actions list:
N1: Scum kill Violator ; Rod divines Frenchie (GL).
D2: Orry lynched. Frenchie on +1 to lynch.
N2: Rabbit steals from Rod (?) ; mafia kill TwilightBard ; Rod divines xyem (BL) ; pazzer protects bazilisek (?)
D3: N/A. xyem on -1 to lynch.
N3: Mafia kill bazilisek ; Rod divines pazzer (GL)
D4: Pazzer on +1 to lynch.
With eight alive it takes five votes to lynch.
1 - Muttly13 (cast by Vitek)
1 - Pazzer (cast by NotFrenchYet)
Not Voting - xyem, SirPrimalform, Muttly13, LittleRabbit, Rodzaju, Pazzer.
Muttly13 is closest to lynch at L-4
Rabbit's magic wand still bothers me...
I'm starting to get suspicious of everyone again..! Mostly xyem (see above), Muttly (the very model of inconsistency with his suspicions), pazzer (where did he go?), Rabbit (mostly the wand thing), and Vitek (cases of the cyclic arguments I pointed out with xyem).
Muttly's early softclaim of baker might be one of those establishing softclaims Baz mentioned, but since this is his first time I'm not so sure.
Pazzer's behaviour is still very, very strange. "Who's up for a mass claim?" then insta-claims, then behaves extremely reluctantly when asked for more information. Also points out that all townies are effectively at L-2, meaning we should be careful with votes, but then switches his vote all over the show. He also mistyped the night he was supposed to have protected Baz - perfectly possible that it was an honest mistake, but still...
##Fact dump:##
Role sheet Mk III:
Register of the Living:
1. Rodzaju (? TOWN: DIVINER) "Fortune Teller"
2. NotFrenchYet (? TOWN : ? MASON) "Fairy"
4. SirPrimalform (? TOWN : ? VANILLA) "Royal Knight"
5. Xyem (? : ?) "Sheep / ????"
8. Vitek (? : ?) "Night Watchman"
9. Pazzer (? TOWN: ? MIRACLE MAKER) "Apothecary"
10 Muttly13 (? TOWN: ? VANILLA) "Baker"
12. LittleRabbit (? TOWN: ? FLAVOUR THIEF) "Little Girl"
Register of the Dead:
0. JoeSapphire, passed on pregame.
6. ViolatorX, went to sleep Night I (TOWN: MASON) "Old Woman"
7. Orryyrro, went to the rose cottage Day II (TOWN: COP) "Poor Blind Jack / King"
11. TwilightBard, left us Night II (TOWN: DOCTOR) "Enchanted Apple Tree"
3. Bazilisek, headed home Night III (TOWN: TRACKER) "Wily Stableboy"
Order of votes on the D2 Orry wagon:
Primal (#280),
Frenchie (#283),
Vitek (#286),
Rod (#288),
Rod unvotes (#311),
Rod revotes (416),
Muttly (#419),
Pazzer (#424)
Estimated actions list:
N1: Scum kill Violator ; Rod divines Frenchie (GL).
D2: Orry lynched. Frenchie on +1 to lynch.
N2: Rabbit steals from Rod (?) ; mafia kill TwilightBard ; Rod divines xyem (BL) ; pazzer protects bazilisek (?)
D3: N/A. xyem on -1 to lynch.
N3: Mafia kill bazilisek ; Rod divines pazzer (GL)
D4: Pazzer on +1 to lynch.