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Put it this way, how many people would of purchased any of the games on GOG today? I would of never purchased any of those games if it wasn't for GOG because 1. Many have DRM still and a lot never worked well with Vista, 2. I'm too lazy to find them, 3. Some can only be found second hand.
My point is that Piracy or not, the fact is there wouldn't of been any sales without GOG, so now there is so they went from no sales to lots of sales.
Check these links out concerning EA's Spore and DRM
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/08/amazon-users-slam-spore-for-drm/
http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/09/08/1613250.shtml
and Amazon.com
2000 plus reviews and a score of one star
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/dp/B000FKBCX4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1221185828&sr=8-1
Think EA has gotten the message yet?
They could Probably could care less
The sad thing is that because EA now owns Bioware we will probably never see Balders gate here.
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adamhc75: Think EA has gotten the message yet?

nah. they got slammed after mass effect too. (before, during and after its release, actually).
:/
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adamhc75: Check these links out concerning EA's Spore and DRM
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/08/amazon-users-slam-spore-for-drm/
http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/09/08/1613250.shtml
and Amazon.com
2000 plus reviews and a score of one star
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/dp/B000FKBCX4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1221185828&sr=8-1
Think EA has gotten the message yet?
They could Probably could care less
The sad thing is that because EA now owns Bioware we will probably never see Balders gate here.
I hope EA has gotten the message, but I fear there could also be backlash as well. Possibly focusing more on consoles and leaving the PC behind due to this protest, and possibly hurting their sales as those who are unaware simply see 2000+ people giving the game 1 star.
I really do hope they get the hint soon and work more with gamers. I would love to play Mass Effect and Spore eventually.
People who make DRM are not trying to stop all piracy, but rather stop casual piracy.
stopping casual piracy is trying to stop people with little computer knowledge from copping protected games in order to give to their friends. It does have an impact on sales to justify having DRM
GOG is taking the smart move by getting titles that are otherwise not making any money as the developers have nothing to lose and everything to gain, Another service 'gametap' has had similar success with getting developers to take some money rather then none for their games (gametap does have the advantage of turner network) It wouldn't surprise me to see the same content on gametap and gog
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adamhc75: Check these links out concerning EA's Spore and DRM
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/08/amazon-users-slam-spore-for-drm/
http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/09/08/1613250.shtml
and Amazon.com
2000 plus reviews and a score of one star
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/dp/B000FKBCX4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1221185828&sr=8-1
Think EA has gotten the message yet?
They could Probably could care less
The sad thing is that because EA now owns Bioware we will probably never see Balders gate here.
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Kurina: I hope EA has gotten the message, but I fear there could also be backlash as well. Possibly focusing more on consoles and leaving the PC behind due to this protest, and possibly hurting their sales as those who are unaware simply see 2000+ people giving the game 1 star.
I really do hope they get the hint soon and work more with gamers. I would love to play Mass Effect and Spore eventually.

That exact same thought about consoles came to my mind also. A good example is Epic games. They have just about separated themselves from PC gaming. For example the menu system in UT3 was built for the console. Also some of the comments made by the company have stated the same thing. I used to respect Epic and EA once upon a time but do to the fact that they seem to think that consoles are the future I more or less look elsewhere for games now. I know that Valves steam service has its own version of DRM but at least I have not had any trouble at all with it. Also Valve seems to be a huge supporter of PC gaming. I also hope that Stardocks new service is a big success. If GOG and Stardock are successful than Just maybe EA and other companies may get the message that we do not want the hassles of DRM. I am more than willing to buy a game at full retail if it is DRM free or even has DRM that is non invasive sort of like the simple CD check or serial key.
I personally could care less if there is or isn't DRM, all that matters to me is that I bought my copy. I am legal, therefore DRM isn't a hassle. I am proud to let people know that I bought the game.
Stealing, whether it be from the rich or the poor, is wrong.
If I am starving and I have nothing to eat, I'd rather work for it than be given a leg up. I take no shame in receiving a leg but, I'd prefer to help myself.
a picture is forming in my mind:
somewhere in 2050 a.d. - a painting that you bought for a neat amount of money from your local artist should be hung in an unlit basement available to be viewed only by you and only for three times, or else it would disintegrate... awful...
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kannabie: a picture is forming in my mind:
somewhere in 2050 a.d. - a painting that you bought for a neat amount of money from your local artist should be hung in an unlit basement available to be viewed only by you and only for three times, or else it would disintegrate... awful...

that is an extreme case of drm, you're right, but just code limiting the content to your account and your account only, is not an issue at all. what they're talking about with spore or shared songs o nthe zune, you're right, that's bullshit. but i know with steam, the only drm is having to be loged into an account that actually has the rights to use the content.
Steam has a fairly good system going imo. While it technically is a form of DRM, it isn't very intrusive or limiting. Actually, it allows plenty of freedom with no real hassle or limitation. So long as you are logged into your account, regardless of which computer, you can download and play any game you own. I personally think it is fairly nice, and continues to improve as time goes on. I just wish they could pick up some more developers, and those developers drop their DRM and go with only Steam's. :(
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adamhc75: That exact same thought about consoles came to my mind also. A good example is Epic games. They have just about separated themselves from PC gaming. For example the menu system in UT3 was built for the console. Also some of the comments made by the company have stated the same thing. I used to respect Epic and EA once upon a time but do to the fact that they seem to think that consoles are the future I more or less look elsewhere for games now.

The EA thing really does scare me. I support protesting the DRM, but I think in the end it wasn't well thought out, and will just destroy the relations between gamers and developers more. I hope not, but I fear it does.
I understand what you mean about Epic. I have always appreciated their games, and I do think they are still good. They are also opting for the console market, which is saddening, especially since they have been around a little while.
I do think PC gamers will lose some companies to consoles, but at least we still have a few developers hanging in there with a focus on PC. In the end, the bright side is maybe it will help weed out some of the developers who just make cookie cutter games, and leave behind those that are truly dedicated to the platform and quality games. Bit of a stretch, but trying to be somewhat hopeful things will work out!
In regards to this whole DRM situation, I can sum it up with this one line:
"DRM doesn't stop pirates, it creates them."
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Klink: In regards to this whole DRM situation, I can sum it up with this one line:
"DRM doesn't stop pirates, it creates them."

QFT
I started pirating games when I became sick of DRM games for what I paid that only caused troubles to my system and headaches to me.
I'm excited with GoG. Now I can play some great games I let pass without DRM crap messing with my computer or CD/DVD reader.
Thanks for GoG :)
Post edited September 12, 2008 by AdHonorem
i'm still not convinced that piracy has much (when you cut through corporate-speak and a lot of b.s.) to do with the perceived "decline" of p.c. gaming.
with the exception of the ps3 (and that seems to have a good deal to do with the expense of blank blu-ray discs) every console has been compromised, all of their catalogs pirated. while the average user might not know how to make these pirated copies work on their systems, these workarounds exist and only get easier to use as time goes by. (square made a very good point clarifying the difference between casual piracy and piracy in post #20)
now take a look at dell, or hp, or in any best buy or any other retail place where the *average* p.c. consumer is most likely to purchase a system. the gulf between an average p.c. and a gaming p.c. has never been wider. if you purchased an average p.c. today you'd be lucky to get half life 2 to run on it's onboard GPU. anything released in the last 18 months would be a crapshoot. run stalker: clear sky or crysis on it? not likely.
i've never seen any "one" platform so divided before. its to the point where i'd have real trouble classifying a 1000+ watt psu, 3xSLI geforce 280, quad core gaming p.c. as anything resembling a "high end" inspiron or pavilion mass market machine.
supporting such a wide range of configurations has to be somewhat maddening.
its my guess that hardware has more to do with certain developers moving towards consoles than anything else. consoles are closed systems, one (technically untrue now, but whatever) configuration for each system. it seems a lot easier to bump a console game up to p.c. standards than to squeeze a high end p.c. title into a console.
closed system environments, a higher price point and a lack of a modding culture (seriously, imagine how many different game configurations players of TES IV: oblivion on the p.c. are running around with at this moment...) just sounds like a LOT fewer headaches for developers.
call me suspicious, but i just dont believe this whole "piracy is making the sky fall!" thing.
i cant imagine stardock has lost so much money distributing the GalCiv games without copy protection of any kind that they are about to release the Demigod game in the same way. (when you look at screens for demigod, it does not look like it has been an inexpensive game to produce...)
maybe i've got a tinfoil hat on, but i just see piracy as a timely ruse being used to move developing costs to cheaper platforms with fewer support hassles and a more concrete set of demographics to project revenue onto. (you can google and find exactly how many ps3s have been sold around the world, you cant find similar data for how many p.c.s out there are capable of running a game of crysis)
Post edited September 12, 2008 by damien
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damien: i cant imagine stardock has lost so much money distributing the GalCiv games without copy protection of any kind that they are about to release the Demigod game in the same way. (when you look at screens for demigod, it does not look like it has been an inexpensive game to produce...)

So true. I bought Gal Civ 2 just for that (otherwise I would have pirated it). I also pre ordered the last expansion being confident whit Stardock's care for their games, and I have to say I'm very pleased with what I got for my money.
Stardock have a great business model that cares more for their customers than for pirates. If somebody want to pirate your game he/she will do it, doesn't matter how draconian is your DRM. In the end they are only annoying their customers who paid real money.
Post edited September 12, 2008 by AdHonorem
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damien: i cant imagine stardock has lost so much money distributing the GalCiv games without copy protection of any kind that they are about to release the Demigod game in the same way. (when you look at screens for demigod, it does not look like it has been an inexpensive game to produce...)
Agreed. Sins of a Solar Empire too. I really love what Stardock is doing. And have they had half the problems with piracy 2K had with BioShock? No/non-invasive DRM = far fewer angry customers and far fewer members of the online community who hear bad things, don't want to spend money on something that might not work, and thus less pirates. I wish EA would wake up and see the light.
Post edited September 12, 2008 by Doman