Posted March 30, 2011
#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:14#Q&_^Q&Q#
Ouch. That's pretty messed up.
Elenarie
@tweetelenarie
Registered: Sep 2008
From Sweden
Snickersnack
Bak'laag Herald
Registered: Aug 2009
From United States
Delixe
Not Merry
Registered: Sep 2008
From Ireland
Posted March 30, 2011
Exactly my point. It's not a cRPG. DA2 has more in common with Final Fantasy X than it does with Baldur's Gate. Some people may enjoy the change but I didn't and looking at the critisims on the BSN it seems I am not alone. jRPG's are 2 a penny on the consoles, why do we need another one when we could have a proper cRPG?
DelusionsBeta
Yikes!
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted March 30, 2011
Steam forum accounts are entirely separate from Steam accounts (and Steam support accounts) for obvious security reasons. Yes, they do: Quake Live, to be specific. There's also a (smaller) element of competitive TF2 and TrackMania.
Post edited March 30, 2011 by DelusionsBeta
Snickersnack
Bak'laag Herald
Registered: Aug 2009
From United States
Posted March 30, 2011
I thought quality jRPGs were pretty rare this generation. Didn't they dry up with the PS2?
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted March 30, 2011
You forgot the eternal loading times on Fallout 2, yes I bought it at release. You know what? They patched it really fast, the patch did have one unforgivable issue, it wouldn't load pre-patch saves, but the stability issues were gone.
New Vegas still crashes even today.
Yeah, I paid for MoO3, we all did. There was no way we could have known what we were getting. Score one for demanding demos, I guess. In its defense MoO3 was stable and wasn't unplayable, it played itself. All you had to do is pick a race and click the next turn button over and over again.
There's been games since time immemorial that didn't even install let alone play correctly. That's hardly the point, the point is New Vegas, one of the most highly rated games for last year, is a steaming pile of turd when it comes to stability.
Again DA2 was one of the most anticipated games of 2011, what's more reviewers are rating it highly still (not gamers though). I bet it makes numerous top 10 lists of best games later on. That's the difference.
Yeah, do we look at yesteryear with rose colored glasses? Sure we do, it seems to be wired into our brains for some reason.
If I had to pick my tops games that came out last year, they'd be exclusively console, I'm not sure I'd have ever been able to say that before: RDR, Enslaved, and Castlevania.
Delixe: Exactly my point. It's not a cRPG. DA2 has more in common with Final Fantasy X than it does with Baldur's Gate. Some people may enjoy the change but I didn't and looking at the critisims on the BSN it seems I am not alone. jRPG's are 2 a penny on the consoles, why do we need another one when we could have a proper cRPG? 
Snickersnack: Don't be silly! DA2 is nothing like FFX. Now if you said DA2 has more in common with a jRPG like Ultima 7: Serpent Isle than Baldur's Gate, I would be more inclined to agree.
I thought quality jRPGs were pretty rare this generation. Didn't they dry up with the PS2? Final Fantasy formula jRPGs are hardly the only ones around. And hell no they are not rare, I've probably got a dozen barely played in the other room. One even came with a mousepad of a woman and her boobs were the wristrest, I kid you not.
New Vegas still crashes even today.
Yeah, I paid for MoO3, we all did. There was no way we could have known what we were getting. Score one for demanding demos, I guess. In its defense MoO3 was stable and wasn't unplayable, it played itself. All you had to do is pick a race and click the next turn button over and over again.
There's been games since time immemorial that didn't even install let alone play correctly. That's hardly the point, the point is New Vegas, one of the most highly rated games for last year, is a steaming pile of turd when it comes to stability.
Again DA2 was one of the most anticipated games of 2011, what's more reviewers are rating it highly still (not gamers though). I bet it makes numerous top 10 lists of best games later on. That's the difference.
Yeah, do we look at yesteryear with rose colored glasses? Sure we do, it seems to be wired into our brains for some reason.
If I had to pick my tops games that came out last year, they'd be exclusively console, I'm not sure I'd have ever been able to say that before: RDR, Enslaved, and Castlevania.
I thought quality jRPGs were pretty rare this generation. Didn't they dry up with the PS2?
Post edited March 30, 2011 by orcishgamer
Midnightetak
Drop Bear
Registered: Mar 2011
From Australia
cw8
noob user
Registered: May 2009
From Singapore
Posted March 30, 2011
Horribly pathetic. Copy and Paste dungeons, lack of main plot, wave after waves of the same enemies, lack of locations, horrible MMOed sidequests, meaningless choices which doesn't affect your outcome and ending etc.
And I completed the whole game on Nightmare, so don't bother to reply me saying you need to play Nightmare to fully experience the game.
Delixe: Exactly my point. It's not a cRPG. DA2 has more in common with Final Fantasy X than it does with Baldur's Gate. Some people may enjoy the change but I didn't and looking at the critisims on the BSN it seems I am not alone. jRPG's are 2 a penny on the consoles, why do we need another one when we could have a proper cRPG? Except it's been a long time that jRPGs have seen the likes of Final Fantasy 6 or 7.
Seems like gaming is getting dumbed-down on all fronts.
And I completed the whole game on Nightmare, so don't bother to reply me saying you need to play Nightmare to fully experience the game.
Seems like gaming is getting dumbed-down on all fronts.
Post edited March 30, 2011 by cw8
JudasIscariot
Thievin' Bastard
Registered: Oct 2008
From Poland
Posted March 30, 2011
@Midnightetak
Hi. Welcome to GOG.
I too feel like gaming has gone towards the crapper;however. they have been going downhill for many, many years. It's not just a recent phenomenon.
Here's when they started going downhill: when Origin Studios released a game known as Ultima VIII, which was playable as an action game that, unfortunately, featured the Avatar. Ultima IX soon followed and it sounded the death knell of Origin Systems. After that double whammy of decline I noticed games started declining even worse if we are strictly speaking of the PC. Oh sure, there was the first 2 Thief games and Deus Ex to fool us into thinking that PC gaming was on an incline. They were exceptions and even those series are getting their dose of the cash grab let's-make-it-playable-even-for-crack-addicted-monkeys-because-they-have-money-and-we-NEEDS-it-our-precious philosophy. Let's not forget the attempt to cash in on System Shock with BioShock...
Speaking of jRPGs, did you know that a company in Japan has the rights to the Wizardry name and they have been churning out Wizardry titles that are somewhat faithful to the original formula? Turn-based dungeon crawling. Another fun fact: Wizardry and, IIRC, Ultima actually form the roots of what is now known as the JRPG.
Another note about jRPGs: not all of them are bad, you just have to be very, very selective. Look at the screenshots 10 times before you buy, read reviews from 20 different sources, ask for player opinions on forums (such as this one! :D ), and wait until they hit the bargain bin :D. I too dislike jRPGs for the same reasons as you but, damn, just about no one else is making turn-based games in the West anymore..
On indies, have you checked out Spiderweb Software and Basilisk Games? Because they might have what you want. I can personally attest that the Geneforge series is one of the better indie efforts in terms of solid turn-based combat with a decent story, HUGE demos that are stripped of features unlike other games where your character can't use half of his/her skills because you need to buy the game.
The Oblivion mod you are looking for is called Nehrim not Neyrim :D Just thought I would help you out in case you are having trouble finding it :D.
Hi. Welcome to GOG.
I too feel like gaming has gone towards the crapper;however. they have been going downhill for many, many years. It's not just a recent phenomenon.
Here's when they started going downhill: when Origin Studios released a game known as Ultima VIII, which was playable as an action game that, unfortunately, featured the Avatar. Ultima IX soon followed and it sounded the death knell of Origin Systems. After that double whammy of decline I noticed games started declining even worse if we are strictly speaking of the PC. Oh sure, there was the first 2 Thief games and Deus Ex to fool us into thinking that PC gaming was on an incline. They were exceptions and even those series are getting their dose of the cash grab let's-make-it-playable-even-for-crack-addicted-monkeys-because-they-have-money-and-we-NEEDS-it-our-precious philosophy. Let's not forget the attempt to cash in on System Shock with BioShock...
Speaking of jRPGs, did you know that a company in Japan has the rights to the Wizardry name and they have been churning out Wizardry titles that are somewhat faithful to the original formula? Turn-based dungeon crawling. Another fun fact: Wizardry and, IIRC, Ultima actually form the roots of what is now known as the JRPG.
Another note about jRPGs: not all of them are bad, you just have to be very, very selective. Look at the screenshots 10 times before you buy, read reviews from 20 different sources, ask for player opinions on forums (such as this one! :D ), and wait until they hit the bargain bin :D. I too dislike jRPGs for the same reasons as you but, damn, just about no one else is making turn-based games in the West anymore..
On indies, have you checked out Spiderweb Software and Basilisk Games? Because they might have what you want. I can personally attest that the Geneforge series is one of the better indie efforts in terms of solid turn-based combat with a decent story, HUGE demos that are stripped of features unlike other games where your character can't use half of his/her skills because you need to buy the game.
The Oblivion mod you are looking for is called Nehrim not Neyrim :D Just thought I would help you out in case you are having trouble finding it :D.
Aaron86
Adam We
Registered: May 2010
From Canada
Posted March 31, 2011
I remember coming across an interview from the 80s with one of the developers for Miday arcade games (Defender, etc.), where either he claimed or said someone else claimed that NES games were dumbed down from arcade games (which the interviewee affectionally called "sperm games"...).
Nintendo's catering to "casuals" didn't start with the Wii. Apparently, hardcore gamers have always hated Nintendo.
sethsez
New User
Registered: Jul 2009
From United States
Posted March 31, 2011
I remember coming across an interview from the 80s with one of the developers for Miday arcade games (Defender, etc.), where either he claimed or said someone else claimed that NES games were dumbed down from arcade games (which the interviewee affectionally called "sperm games"...).
Nintendo's catering to "casuals" didn't start with the Wii. Apparently, hardcore gamers have always hated Nintendo.
This isn't to say there are legitimate complaints to be made about gaming today, of course. The point is that nostalgia vs current events is always hard to evaluate. Even if you're trying to be completely objective it's just much easier to forget something that happened 20 years ago than something that happened yesterday. Dragon Age II is easier to remember than Lands of Lore II, Eye of the Beholder III, Ultima VIII, Menzoberranzan, Wizardry IV (just because it was an original concept in a classic series doesn't mean it wasn't awful), and so on.
somberfox
Game Fanatic
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted March 31, 2011
As a matter of fact, I do think the gamer has been forgotten, my anger over this has been steadily increasing for the past year or so. As the big companies have been taken over by guys like Bobby Kotick during the last 4-5 years, the types of games that are made have drastically changed to aim solely at the most people possible with the least risk possible.
I feel more and more that indie games are the last bastion of long time gamers like me.
I feel more and more that indie games are the last bastion of long time gamers like me.
Post edited March 31, 2011 by somberfox
sethsez
New User
Registered: Jul 2009
From United States
Posted March 31, 2011
I feel more and more that indie games are the last bastion of long time gamers like me.
And big budget games have always been aimed at pleasing the most people with the least risk. Do you really think Wing Commander, Sam & Max Hit the Road, Eye of the Beholder or Duke Nukem 3D were considered huge financial risks?
The games that are being made have changed with the trends, but don't kid yourself into thinking that people weren't chasing trends 20 years ago either. Innovation generally came from hungry young upstarts and big companies were churning out endless sequels, just like today. There's a reason King's Quest had 8 games, Space Quest had 6, Quest for Glory had 5, and Police Quest had 4 main games and the SWAT offshoot series. Those weren't all made because of a deep artistic desire to do the same damn thing over and over for a couple dozen games, it was done because they sold extremely well.
Edit: I realize that I'm coming off as a bit cranky here, so I'm going to clarify my basic point:
The industry hasn't changed much in the past 20 years. Or at least, the motivations haven't changed. Demographics have changed. You used to be in a lucrative demographic and now you're not. That sucks, but they're avoiding you now for the same reason they were selling to you earlier: profit. You used to be profitable and now you're not, which is unfortunate, but don't try to convince yourself that companies were somehow being more artistically minded or anything like that when they were targeting you. They weren't: you just had the good luck of being in the demographic that paid the most money for videogames.
I certainly have genres that I miss. I'd love to have more space sims, but X3 has been doing a decent job of scratching that itch. I'd love to see more party-based RPGs, but Risen was good enough for me to be satiated despite it being single character only. I'd love to have another X-Com, but even the original developers weren't able to capture that lightning in a bottle twice. And on the upside, flight sims and racing sims are better than ever thanks to modern processors being able to handle more realistic and detailed physics calculations (and thanks to sim hardware being better than ever). Meanwhile, the Stalker series has been an absolute joy despite a rather bumpy start, and the King's Bounty revival has resulted in some of my favorite games... well, ever.
I dunno. I guess I just don't take mainstream gaming's shift away from some of my tastes to be some kind of personal affront or a sign of things getting dumber. I can't expect my own sensibilities to be the center of every marketing department forever. That's just the way the world works, it's not a sign that things are going to hell in a handbasket.
Post edited March 31, 2011 by sethsez
StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted March 31, 2011
Despite being 95% a PC only gamer for almost 20 years I am not that sensitive to "ports" and the issues people say come with them. I played Crysis 2 and was like "awesome shooter, looked amazing, a little more linear but still a lot of fun." Then I go to forums and read all the complaints about options, interface and textures that PC gamers were supposed to notice and be mad about.
Don't get me wrong I do notice the simplification of games and the targeting of the mass-market, and I do think that hurts gaming, I just don't think ports are the problem. Ports have been around since Pac-Man on the Atari... if the core game is good then the game is good, no matter the platform. Besides if we banned all ports we would only get MMOs and indie games and I for one would not be happy about that.
Anyway, gamers like me who are in their 30s and want a deeper and more old-school experience will probably continue to be disappointed in mass-market games, but that's pretty typical. How many movies or TV shows are as good as the ones you watched when you were younger? How much new popular music do you listen to? For most people as they get older they get more and more removed from current popular culture, nothing strange or unique to gaming about that.
Luckily we have the classics, we have indies making classic-like games and lastly we have modern games which can be quite good, even if they are not exactly what you want.
Don't get me wrong I do notice the simplification of games and the targeting of the mass-market, and I do think that hurts gaming, I just don't think ports are the problem. Ports have been around since Pac-Man on the Atari... if the core game is good then the game is good, no matter the platform. Besides if we banned all ports we would only get MMOs and indie games and I for one would not be happy about that.
Anyway, gamers like me who are in their 30s and want a deeper and more old-school experience will probably continue to be disappointed in mass-market games, but that's pretty typical. How many movies or TV shows are as good as the ones you watched when you were younger? How much new popular music do you listen to? For most people as they get older they get more and more removed from current popular culture, nothing strange or unique to gaming about that.
Luckily we have the classics, we have indies making classic-like games and lastly we have modern games which can be quite good, even if they are not exactly what you want.
somberfox
Game Fanatic
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted March 31, 2011