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Summit: Got to be Oblivion. Such a beautiful world, greatest music i've ever heard and everything ruined because of a stupid leveling system, lack of challenges, retarded story and stupid Fed Ex quests.
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Red_Avatar: Thank god for Mods. The Thief mod actually made the game a lot more fun. Too bad the auto-generated dungeons sucked. Fallout 3 learned from this and only offered pre-built areas which were a lot more interesting.

Apart from the subways
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Red_Avatar: Thank god for Mods. The Thief mod actually made the game a lot more fun. Too bad the auto-generated dungeons sucked. Fallout 3 learned from this and only offered pre-built areas which were a lot more interesting.
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Aliasalpha: Apart from the subways

Really? I never noticed that. Then again, all subways were nearly identical in look anyway. If the game needed anything, it was more set pieces to offer a more unique look to some locations.
I got bored before i tried those. But i heard the game is half-decent with mods.
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Summit: Got to be Oblivion. Such a beautiful world, greatest music i've ever heard and everything ruined because of a stupid leveling system, lack of challenges, retarded story and stupid Fed Ex quests.
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Red_Avatar: Thank god for Mods. The Thief mod actually made the game a lot more fun. Too bad the auto-generated dungeons sucked. Fallout 3 learned from this and only offered pre-built areas which were a lot more interesting.

Dugeons were bad but what about oblivion gates? I would rather have an anthrax then see them again.
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DarthKaal: I really enjoyed Farhenheit, surely cause I give importance to the general atmosphere in a game, I liked the immersive aspect.
But on a pure games aspect, I've been very disappointed by all the QTE actions, too many of them, and you can hardly see what's going on on screen while focusing on it...
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Aliasalpha: I wouldn't call them quicktime events exactly, no more so than any other button press anyway. They seem to me to be just a different way of controlling the game

Right. In fact most of the action sequences use some kind of an old Simon game.
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Red_Avatar: Thank god for Mods. The Thief mod actually made the game a lot more fun. Too bad the auto-generated dungeons sucked. Fallout 3 learned from this and only offered pre-built areas which were a lot more interesting.
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Summit: Dugeons were bad but what about oblivion gates? I would rather have an anthrax then see them again.

Yeah I hated those as well.
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soulgrindr: There were a few games that were disappointing (Jedi Outcast

o_O
You have your opinion of course, but... c'mon, Jedi Outcast is surely one the best Star Wars games ever made. I could understand a disapointment with Jedi Academy (which was just a multiplayer update, with a minimalist solo game), but with Jedi Outcast?
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Fenixp: Have you tried The Longest Journey and it's sequel, Dreamfall? Granted, there is one or two illogical puzzles involved, but the rest either makes sense or is not puzzle at all. Saying that the only genre that actually focuses on good story should stay dead isn't the best thing to say, in my opinion. You should rather think 'Adventure games should be more polished.' They have some game design issues that are usually not resolved even in today's games, but still, they work great as interactive fiction, and that is the way I actually approach them. You are right about them not basically having gameplay thou, not that I actually care about that since I'm playing...walking trough them for story.

Kudos for trying WoW before bashing it. :)
I do in fact have TLJ installed, but I haven't been bothered with getting it to run yet. (It's the GOG version, yeah). I do kind of regret that I couldn't find the version with Swedish dubs; the one time I want a localized version of a game and it's not available...
Even if I look at adventure games as interactive fiction, well, it's only interactive if there's actual gameplay. Granted, my favourite game evar, Planescape: Torment, is pretty much only text with zoomed-in pixels, and it's why I love it, but it's still more interactive than ye average adventure game.
I recall trying one of the old Infocom games a few years back - Trinity - and I found it more interesting than any graphical adventure game I've played simply because of the illusion of freedom in it. Granted, its difficulty was stiff enough to make me drop it after a few hours, but it still seemed more genuine as a game compared to what was released later.
On the whole I feel that Valve are on to something with Half-Life: you tell the story in the medium, not try to make the medium something it's not. I still love Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid and all those games with fancy cutscenes, but it's definitely not how story-telling in a video game should look. Even the floating text in Braid means you have to pause the action to read it, and that's one of the best examples of story-gameplay integration.
I recently saw a screenshot of the new Splinter Cell where the main character was crawling through an air duct (absurdly spacious, of course) and light was filtering through in such a way that the words "Save the scientist" (or somesuch) became visible on the wall. That seems the right way to go.
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Whitecroc: I recently saw a screenshot of the new Splinter Cell where the main character was crawling through an air duct (absurdly spacious, of course) and light was filtering through in such a way that the words "Save the scientist" (or somesuch) became visible on the wall. That seems the right way to go.

I'd love to see a game where the ducts are too small in places, if you try to go through you end up getting stuck and have to wait till the enemy come along to arrest you and hope they brought butter
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soulgrindr: There were a few games that were disappointing (Jedi Outcast
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DarthKaal: o_O
You have your opinion of course, but... c'mon, Jedi Outcast is surely one the best Star Wars games ever made. I could understand a disapointment with Jedi Academy (which was just a multiplayer update, with a minimalist solo game), but with Jedi Outcast?

I actually enjoyed jedi academy more, because after JO my expectations were very low.
Personally I thought JO was the first bad star wars game... the end of the lucasarts classic period.
Dark Forces and Jedi Knight were awesome. Jedi Outcast had boring generic small levels, none of the cool powers or light/dark side of JK, dull weapons, a poor story, and I always thought it had a lot more in common with Elite Force than Jedi Knight.
It wasn't a bad game... it was just a totally average Quake3 engine game.. with a lightsaber. Following on from Jedi Knight, that was never going to be enough.
Plus, Kyle hearts Jan = ew!
...Pretty much all of the current gen call of duties'. >_>
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Whitecroc: I do in fact have TLJ installed, but I haven't been bothered with getting it to run yet. (It's the GOG version, yeah). I do kind of regret that I couldn't find the version with Swedish dubs; the one time I want a localized version of a game and it's not available...
Even if I look at adventure games as interactive fiction, well, it's only interactive if there's actual gameplay. Granted, my favourite game evar, Planescape: Torment, is pretty much only text with zoomed-in pixels, and it's why I love it, but it's still more interactive than ye average adventure game.

I actually think Adventure games have the opportunity to create 'visual' stories, that are way longer than even the longest movies, for way less budget. That's why I find their story so interesting: Usually you get more story than you get from a movie. But yeah, they usually aren't too interactive. Then again, I could say that about some FPS games as well..
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Whitecroc: On the whole I feel that Valve are on to something with Half-Life: you tell the story in the medium, not try to make the medium something it's not. I still love Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid and all those games with fancy cutscenes, but it's definitely not how story-telling in a video game should look. Even the floating text in Braid means you have to pause the action to read it, and that's one of the best examples of story-gameplay integration.
I recently saw a screenshot of the new Splinter Cell where the main character was crawling through an air duct (absurdly spacious, of course) and light was filtering through in such a way that the words "Save the scientist" (or somesuch) became visible on the wall. That seems the right way to go.

As for story in games, well... It should be told naturally, and I don't really think secret agent would care about a randomly created image on a wall :D Anything goes, be it briefings if you're supposed to be a soldier preparing for action, or dialogues in RPGs. But yeah, cinematics often don't feel 'right' in video games, and the approach HL2 took is almost perfect. In fact, with modern graphics, it should not be a problem to make in-game scripted sequences as awesome as cinematics of the older games were.
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Aliasalpha: I'd love to see a game where the ducts are too small in places, if you try to go through you end up getting stuck and have to wait till the enemy come along to arrest you and hope they brought butter

+1 for free association :D
Killzone: Liberation for the PSP.
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Wolfox: Battlecruiser 3000AD. Need I say more? Derek Smart promised the definitive space game. All he delivered was a gdfsgsdfhgsdfghsdgfh mess.

Oh geesh! I had blocked that whole disaster from my memory. I have BC M sitting in a box nearby, hidden under alot of other stuff. Between lack of information on how/what to do, buggy gameplay, items that... well... Derek Smart must have dreamed about and put in a press release cause I sure didn't see em.
Even his newest 'success' (all of his games are perfect, either the customers or the publishers are the ones who suck) Something Squad Echo [or whatever] lives up to his standards (which, if you get the underlying drift, isn't good).
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carlosjuero: Even his newest 'success' (all of his games are perfect, either the customers or the publishers are the ones who suck) Something Squad Echo [or whatever] lives up to his standards (which, if you get the underlying drift, isn't good).

Actually, his latest "success" is "All Aspect Warfare". Not that it makes any difference - just telling you the name so you can avoid it. ;-)
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soulgrindr: Jedi Outcast had boring generic small levels, none of the cool powers or light/dark side of JK, dull weapons, a poor story, and I always thought it had a lot more in common with Elite Force than Jedi Knight.

Small levels? Which ones?
I wonder cause it's one of the things I really liked in JO, majority of the levels were huge, contrary to most of the other FPS released at that time (and recent FPS since that time too). Jedi Academy had only "small levels" though.
And I remember having a lot of fun with force powers. We had jump, push, pull (at a good level, you could even just pull out weapons of the enemy, so cool), lightings, speed, etc... Pretty much same powers than in JK.
And lightsaber combat was really really well done, far better than in JK. A lot of cool move, different combat styles, etc...
Sorry but I fail to see what's missing in JO.
Of course, no Star Wars game could beat feelings we had while playing Dark Forces and the original Jedi Knight. But that doesn't mean than Jedi Outcast can't be good.