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General discussion (archive)Games with Keys?(76 posts)(76 posts)
(76 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 27, 2012
As for why we don't give you more than one key, well, technically you shouldn't be playing co-op with a friend if you only have one license for the game anyway. Of course, we don't use DRM so we can't exactly enforce this, but the general analogy we use is "treat your download like a CD". If you loaned the CD to your friend to play, you wouldn't be able to play it until he gave it back. Treating GOG.com downloads the same way seems fair to us, so that you can still share your games with your friends--but only if you're not using them while you do.
This analogy does not automatically rule out LAN play as I have described it: many games, games like Starcraft 1 and Age of Empires II, had express provisions for allowing multiple people to play with only one CD. I see that the loathed "If you read the EULA, then what you're doing is wrong " argument was thrown down after this post of GOG's that I am quoting. Fine. As I said, while that stands against the [i]spirit, the intent of GOG, I'd be fine with that. However, GOG has no provision for me to buy 2 CD Keys from 1 account. A full disclosure on the game's page about the keys and a provision to so purchase multiple keys would have prevented my shocked, quizzical outrage over the issue.

I thought that the whole concept of GOG was to appeal to the "inherent goodness" in gamers, to show us how great truly unrestricted gaming is, and thus inspire us to purchase the games and support the industry and GOG. GOG even reassured us that this would still be the case when they announced that they were going to release newer games. Even if what I am trying to do is "wrong", that GOG is restricting it is a violation of their purported principles.

For the record, I am not "handing out" any copies of my games. I'm not "giving" my copy away (though GOG's install screens don't frown upon such: "No copy protection in our games") to freeloaders. I merely want to test out this coop thing on my second PC. My game being played in my PC in my house. Making my friend create an account and buy a copy of the game so that he can play it on my PC is illogical, the kind of wonkiness that DRM forces us to abide by. The only difference between GOG's version of this game and Valve's is $10 bucks (and slightly less odious DRM).

I seem to be getting the idea that the developers of Two Worlds themselves have forced this tightly-regulated, DRM-laden multiplayer scheme upon us. If so, then why is this game on GOG?
Post edited May 27, 2012 by vrmlbasic
Posted May 27, 2012
Keys should be distributed automatically. This is the biggest bullshit of GOG.

To have to request every single key for multiplayer is a sad joke.

Guys, you focus on a topic that doesn't freaking matter "OMG CD KEYS ARE DRM SO GOG GAMES ARE NOT DRM FREE!!!" instead of you have to beg for a key to a game you PAID for. What the hell? They don't have enough keys for everyone so they hope not enough people will request them?

If you want to play with friend on one copy, use the pirated CD key for him, god dammit.

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TheEnigmaticT: Okay, it's probably possible to play more than one computer at once, but it's hardly practical.
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xyem: Turn-based games. Extremely practical to play more than one at the same time :)
Hot seat is usually way more fun for turn based games. :P
Post edited May 27, 2012 by keeveek
Posted May 27, 2012
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keeveek: To have to request every single key for multiplayer is a sad joke.
On that particular note, I do believe they have an automated system for that for at least one or a few games now and are trying to add more to them. (With, I assume, the intention of having it for all that require it eventually)
Posted May 27, 2012
It took them some years to start implementing this :P
Posted May 27, 2012
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vrmlbasic: I seem to be getting the idea that the developers of Two Worlds themselves have forced this tightly-regulated, DRM-laden multiplayer scheme upon us. If so, then why is this game on GOG?
I don't know, but after playing through it 3 or so times in a 6 month period, I'm glad it is. But then I don't give a rip about MP.



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keeveek: Keys should be distributed automatically. This is the biggest bullshit of GOG.

To have to request every single key for multiplayer is a sad joke.

Guys, you focus on a topic that doesn't freaking matter "OMG CD KEYS ARE DRM SO GOG GAMES ARE NOT DRM FREE!!!" instead of you have to beg for a key to a game you PAID for. What the hell? They don't have enough keys for everyone so they hope not enough people will request them?

If you want to play with friend on one copy, use the pirated CD key for him, god dammit.

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xyem: Turn-based games. Extremely practical to play more than one at the same time :)
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keeveek: Hot seat is usually way more fun for turn based games. :P
Depending on the deal they very well may not have keys for everyone.
Posted May 27, 2012
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vrmlbasic: As spinefarm also said, these keys ARE DRM. In this case, they're just pointless and illogical DRM. With a smattering of irony, but I suppose I'll find via searching that this has already been said (though it is worth saying again, and again).
No. You're wrong.

CD-Keys are Copy protection. They are not DRM.

Under "Copy protection for computer software" you'll see: "A product key, a series of letters and numbers that is asked for when running the program. Many computer programs use registration keys. The software will refuse to run if the registration key is not typed in correctly, and multiplayer games will refuse to run if another user is online who has used the same registration key."

DRM is different from copy protection. DRM usually means setting a limit of installs, having to authenticate your game online from a server, or having to have a constant internet connection.

GOG is DRM-Free, but if you want to play with MP you'll have to deal with the games copy protection. Once GOG starts releasing keys automatically it won't even be noticed anymore.
Post edited May 27, 2012 by Fuzzyfireball
Posted May 27, 2012
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vrmlbasic: As spinefarm also said, these keys ARE DRM. In this case, they're just pointless and illogical DRM. With a smattering of irony, but I suppose I'll find via searching that this has already been said (though it is worth saying again, and again).
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Fuzzyfireball: No. You're wrong.

CD-Keys are Copy protection. They are not DRM.

Under "Copy protection for computer software" you'll see: "A product key, a series of letters and numbers that is asked for when running the program. Many computer programs use registration keys. The software will refuse to run if the registration key is not typed in correctly, and multiplayer games will refuse to run if another user is online who has used the same registration key."

DRM is different from copy protection. DRM usually means setting a limit of installs, having to authenticate your game online from a server, or having to have a constant internet connection.

GOG is DRM-Free, but if you want to play with MP you'll have to deal with the games copy protection. Once GOG starts releasing keys automatically it won't even be noticed anymore.
Having to have a CD-key to play on-line AND having it checked against other active keys IS a kind of on-line authentication. So by that definition one could be forgiven for equating it with DRM.

Then many people(including myself) ideologically lump copy protection as a form of DRM, using DRM as a generic umbrella term for any intentional efforts on the part of the game owners to control their IP once its out in the wild and into customer's hands.

Just because the techniques have changed, that doesn't mean the mentality or reasoning for employing a technique has. In the end the idea is always the same. Keep the game out of people's hands that didn't pay for it.

From a consumer perspective I see no reason to view them differently as the goal and functional end is basically the same. A game having to ask permission to run from some artificial software layer that's job is to verify a disc is legit is not really much different than the game having to ask permission from an on-line server. Issues and solutions may manifest in slightly different ways due to differing techniques, and its fine to split hairs on what techniques are the most invasive, risky, or annoying, but until someone can provide a good generic term to lump all that stuff under, DRM is all we have, its what I'm sticking with, and I don't want any of it.
Posted May 28, 2012
oh my god...

Guys, call it whatever you like. It is IMPOSSIBLE to remove cd key check from online play, because ONLINE ENGINGE was written to recognize the player by it's cd key.

So you would have either multiplayer removed COMPLETELY or just take the cd key and shut up already...

OR USE PIRATED CD KEYS LIKE ANYBODY CARE.

And yes, GOG.com slogan "You buy it, you keep it / own it" is a LIE. Welcome to the PR.
Post edited May 28, 2012 by keeveek
Posted May 28, 2012
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vrmlbasic: As spinefarm also said, these keys ARE DRM. In this case, they're just pointless and illogical DRM. With a smattering of irony, but I suppose I'll find via searching that this has already been said (though it is worth saying again, and again).
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Fuzzyfireball: No. You're wrong.

CD-Keys are Copy protection. They are not DRM.

Under "Copy protection for computer software" you'll see: "A product key, a series of letters and numbers that is asked for when running the program. Many computer programs use registration keys. The software will refuse to run if the registration key is not typed in correctly, and multiplayer games will refuse to run if another user is online who has used the same registration key."

DRM is different from copy protection. DRM usually means setting a limit of installs, having to authenticate your game online from a server, or having to have a constant internet connection.

GOG is DRM-Free, but if you want to play with MP you'll have to deal with the games copy protection. Once GOG starts releasing keys automatically it won't even be noticed anymore.
Just because that part mentions CD-keys does not mean that *any* key is suddenly just copy protection.

In this case it's a multiplayer key, and as they mentioned above, they are only allowing you one key, because you are only supposed to play online one copy/person at a time.

That is quite literally managing how you play your copy. If they handed the keys out whenever you wanted them then I agree, it's not DRM anymore. But as long as they limit you to one *they* are deciding how you use your copy, and it is DRM.


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keeveek: It is IMPOSSIBLE to remove cd key check from online play, because ONLINE ENGINGE was written to recognize the player by it's cd key.
Don't think anyone is arguing this really. It's the restriction of one CD-key per person however that's under some scrutiny. (and that it wasn't handed out automatically so far)
Post edited May 28, 2012 by Pheace
Posted May 28, 2012
But if you want to play just with a friend, what stops you from using pirated cd key? In the past I did that dozens of times, to play with my friend and I live till today.

Why somebody should receive million of cd keys for one game directly from GOG?

They would run out of keys pretty soon and that doesn't make any sense to me, and self-entitlement and so on :P.
Post edited May 28, 2012 by keeveek
Posted May 28, 2012
CD-Keys are copy protection. Just like games that require you to flip to page 6 and type in the 27th word. Copy protection.

When you went to the store to buy a game. You got one CD-Key. You didn't get 5. You didn't get 10. You got one.

How some of you people see fucking CD-keys as DRM blows my mind.
Posted May 28, 2012
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keeveek: And yes, GOG.com slogan "You buy it, you keep it / own it" is a LIE. Welcome to the PR.
Well you certainly own the licence, and they have no way of taking it away from you. Even if they closed your account you'd still have the licence.
Posted May 28, 2012
So open a store and start selling games you bought on GOG.com

Wait for a lawsuit. See how you loose.

If you owned them legally, you should be able to legally sold them, just like with regular stuff. But you can't. You never actually own a software.

You don't own the license, because license is a agreement between two parties.
Post edited May 28, 2012 by keeveek
Posted May 28, 2012
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keeveek: So open a store and start selling games you bought on GOG.com

Wait for a lawsuit. See how you loose.

If you owned them legally, you should be able to legally sold them, just like with regular stuff. But you can't. You never actually own a software.

You don't own the license, because license is a agreement between two parties.
You own the licence as much as it is possible to own it. I never said you owned the software itself, so of course you can't sell it. No one anywhere sells you the actual software and to claim otherwise would be stupid.
Posted May 28, 2012
GoG sell the rights to use the software, like any other company out there.
You don't own the software.

Well, the only exception I know of is outsourcing, were you pay someone else to code YOUR software.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Games with Keys?(76 posts)(76 posts)
(76 posts)