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General discussion (archive)Games that patronize the player and those that don't.(56 posts)(56 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 31, 2013
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Vestin: It can get even worse.
I have a habit of rebinding every key before I even see the game. As a result - tutorials that have the bindings hard-coded instead of reading the config on the fly... give me incorrect information.
It can get EVEN WORSE STILL. If the text says something like "Press F to turn on your flashlight", I just press something like the fifth mouse button or tilt my scroll wheel to the left, depending on what I remember manually binding "toggle flashlight" to. If the tutorial merely says "Press F now", wanting to follow up with something like "See? That's how you turn on your flashlight!" I have to either guess, memorize "F means the button above the scroll-wheel" or press every bound button at random until I discover the right one >_<.
I had that problem with AC, IIRC. I was playing the PC version, and it was giving me the keys using the XBox controller. I didn't have an XBox controller, so I had to remember that the X key was mapped to whatever keyboard key it was mapped to.
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timppu: For instance, I quite often see avid gamers who are completely lost with the whole idea of WASD + mouse for FPS games, simply because they haven't played such games on PCs before. Like recently when I tried to teach one kid to play a PC FPS game with the keyboard, he still tried to use WASD with two hands, not one. I bet he wouldn't have learned it by just looking at key bindings in the options screen.
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FraterPerdurabo: I remember when I got a PC when I was 7 years old and I used both hands to press the arrow keys when playing Doom! Also, for a long time I did not manage to get past level 1 because I did not know that the green thing on a wall at the end of the level was meant to be pressed in order to proceed to the next level. Then for a very long time, I did not manage to pick up the red key in level 2 because you had to run across that little pit using the Shift key and I never used the Shift key because I could not handle the controls at such speeds. I never owned a console and the PC was my first gaming experience. A lot of the things that seem completely intuitive right now did not seem quite as much so back then.
Wow, when I was that age, we randomly hit buttons when we were in a situation like that. Didn't the end say exit? Or am I remembering incorrectly?
Post edited August 31, 2013 by hedwards
Posted August 31, 2013
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wpegg: Oh, I've got this notion...
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Spinorial: Why?! Why don't they make stuff like this anymore?! I so wish I'd played this game...
You've never played it?!! Tutorial was painful, but it was a very clever game. So much so that it hid most of its best features from the average player (the neural nets that they wrote made the game quite esoteric). I'd highly recommend picking up a copy from some "has been" games store.
Posted August 31, 2013
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hedwards: I had that problem with AC, IIRC. I was playing the PC version, and it was giving me the keys using the XBox controller. I didn't have an XBox controller, so I had to remember that the X key was mapped to whatever keyboard key it was mapped to.
Mirror's Edge assumes that if you have a XInput gamepad connected to your PC, you are using it for the game, instead of the (superior) keyboard+mouse. So, when you play the tutorial, it is a good idea to disconnect any gamepads from your PC.

Fortunately the keyboard+mouse controls still work even with a gamepad attached, but it just mentions the gamepad controls during the tutorial then. But if the gamepad is disconnected, it will tell the kb+mouse controls instead.
Post edited August 31, 2013 by timppu
Posted August 31, 2013
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FraterPerdurabo: I remember when I got a PC when I was 7 years old and I used both hands to press the arrow keys when playing Doom! Also, for a long time I did not manage to get past level 1 because I did not know that the green thing on a wall at the end of the level was meant to be pressed in order to proceed to the next level. Then for a very long time, I did not manage to pick up the red key in level 2 because you had to run across that little pit using the Shift key and I never used the Shift key because I could not handle the controls at such speeds. I never owned a console and the PC was my first gaming experience. A lot of the things that seem completely intuitive right now did not seem quite as much so back then.
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hedwards: Wow, when I was that age, we randomly hit buttons when we were in a situation like that. Didn't the end say exit? Or am I remembering incorrectly?
No, because of the fear that I'd fuck something up. Like I said, at the time, I had literally played on a console maybe like twice at a friend's place (don't even know which one it was, I was raised on books). On a console it was easier because the controller had about six buttons. I had never been behind a computer before and there was just this sea of buttons laid out in a completely arbitrary manner. I understood that the arrow keys moved, CTRL attacked and SPACE opened doors, but I did not realise that the green button on the wall should also be activated with the spacebar. Furthermore, I did not speak any English at the time and did not know what "exit" meant. My very first experience with PC games! I do still feel very nostalgic about Doom II and replay it every few years or so.

edit: also, sometimes the buttons made a horrible loud beeping sound when you touched them!
Post edited August 31, 2013 by FraterPerdurabo
Posted August 31, 2013
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wpegg: You've never played it?!! Tutorial was painful, but it was a very clever game. So much so that it hid most of its best features from the average player (the neural nets that they wrote made the game quite esoteric). I'd highly recommend picking up a copy from some "has been" games store.
Probably should. But that snipped really caught my attention :D
Posted August 31, 2013
I pretty much agree with timpbuu. I'm completely fine with tutorials. I also kinda hate the term "patronizing" when it comes describing tutorials,
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nijuu: Tutorials seem pointless - many games use similar keys for basic movement, combat, inventory actions.
and many games don't, so they aren't pointless then
Post edited August 31, 2013 by CaptainGyro
Posted August 31, 2013
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nijuu: Tutorials seem pointless - many games use similar keys for basic movement, combat, inventory actions.
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CaptainGyro: and many games don't, so they aren't pointless then
Yeah, I used to pirate games as well. Without a manual and tutorial, we were forced to press random buttons until we figured out what did what. It was pure hell.
Posted August 31, 2013
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hedwards: Yeah, I used to pirate games as well. Without a manual and tutorial, we were forced to press random buttons until we figured out what did what. It was pure hell.
Sounds like good way to fight piracy. "You will only know how to control our game if you buy it and get manual with explanation."
:-)
Posted August 31, 2013
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Vitek: Sounds like good way to fight piracy. "You will only know how to control our game if you buy it and get manual with explanation."
:-)
That actually was the way to fight piracy you know :-P
Posted August 31, 2013
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Fenixp: That actually was the way to fight piracy you know :-P
Really?
Posted August 31, 2013
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Fenixp: That actually was the way to fight piracy you know :-P
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Vitek: Really?
Well, the entire thing with 'buy the manual and we'll tell you what to type in some point in the game' that eventually evolved in CD-keys
Posted August 31, 2013
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Fenixp: That actually was the way to fight piracy you know :-P
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Vitek: Really?
I remember Civ I wouldn't let you save the game until you passed the reference check symbols on various pages. I think by the second month, I had committed them all to memory.
Posted August 31, 2013
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Fenixp: Well, the entire thing with 'buy the manual and we'll tell you what to type in some point in the game' that eventually evolved in CD-keys
Oh, right, forgot about those.
I was more thinking something like making too complicated game to make it only understandable with manual. :-)
Posted September 01, 2013
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Fenixp: Well, the entire thing with 'buy the manual and we'll tell you what to type in some point in the game' that eventually evolved in CD-keys
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Vitek: Oh, right, forgot about those.
I was more thinking something like making too complicated game to make it only understandable with manual. :-)
Crusader Kings II managed to be completely incomprehensible with a tutorial and a manual ;)
Posted September 01, 2013
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Vitek: Oh, right, forgot about those.
I was more thinking something like making too complicated game to make it only understandable with manual. :-)
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Dzsono: Crusader Kings II managed to be completely incomprehensible with a tutorial and a manual ;)
Yeeeeeeah. I figured out how to play it from reading a Let's Play. The manual and tutorial are basically useless.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Games that patronize the player and those that don't.(56 posts)(56 posts)
(56 posts)