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It's too diverse to crash.

I do think another "big publisher" will go under however, like Atari and THQ and others before. And I do think buying $60 discs to play on a $400 console is a paradigm with limited life expectancy.
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gooberking: I doubt anything is really in motion for any serious changes. If the average gamer thought about the industry the way I do then it would be in serious trouble, but as near as I can tell the bulk of gamers, where the money is, don't seem to mind being called whales, milked in ridiculous ways, or seem to give a toss about DRM because it's perfectly fine to toss 60+ dollars on a new game so who the crap cares about what happens to a game that is 6 months old. People don't even seem to care all that much about a DRM scheme dying in like 3 months that has some very big name tiles tied to it. Games that are still being sold, and sold without warnings as to how their functionally may be impaired or end very soon.

The industry is an entitled brat, and customers are OK with putting up with her crap for access to the goods. It seems like a fairly balanced relationship. A one sided, dysfunctional one where one side has no respect for the other, and the other side has no respect for themselves, but it's working - unfortunately.
Hate to say it but I think I agree.
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StingingVelvet: It's too diverse to crash.

I do think another "big publisher" will go under however, like Atari and THQ and others before. And I do think buying $60 discs to play on a $400 console is a paradigm with limited life expectancy.
Well I guess it boils down to what you think a crash is. If such a thing were to happen I think I would take that as another crash. I don't expect games to disappear. But I do expect a lot of jobs in the industry to disappear.
Post edited April 02, 2014 by Magmarock
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StingingVelvet: It's too diverse to crash.

I do think another "big publisher" will go under however, like Atari and THQ and others before. And I do think buying $60 discs to play on a $400 console is a paradigm with limited life expectancy.
I feel your guesses are right. I think this console generation is going to be a sizeable shrink over the previous one, even without counting the Wii phenomena.
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StingingVelvet: It's too diverse to crash.

I do think another "big publisher" will go under however, like Atari and THQ and others before. And I do think buying $60 discs to play on a $400 console is a paradigm with limited life expectancy.
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Fictionvision: I feel your guesses are right. I think this console generation is going to be a sizeable shrink over the previous one, even without counting the Wii phenomena.
I love my Wii, so I don't like admitting this, but quite a few Wii owners just assume play on their phone, it seems. Or, if they are a serious gamer, first off they should move up to a Wii U, secondly, most their friends probably only seriously play on another platform, which may lead to neglect. Unfortunately, Wii's are not fashionable, and for gamers other consoles are and phones are fashionable for the casual market.
Anybody else not like the word "gamer?" I just hate saying it, don't know why.
About 5 years ago, I would say yes we were going to have a crash soon and it would cripple the industry. But after seeing the indie game and classic game renaissance thanks to social media and the web, I don't think so anymore. Great games are being made all the time and many of them the consumer is directly funding, its a great time to be a gamer.
It will, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been watching the stock market, gauging public opinion or watching the declining sales numbers of the AAA games company of rising sales of the indie game companies.
It's going to happen, eventually. Slowly, or quickly, it will still happen. And I can't wait :)
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itchy01ca01: It will, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been watching the stock market, gauging public opinion or watching the declining sales numbers of the AAA games company of rising sales of the indie game companies.
It's going to happen, eventually. Slowly, or quickly, it will still happen. And I can't wait :)
I don't see that as a crash, but the AAA companies toppling over and letting the indie type of games win out. I think there will be a day where AAA publishers will stop throwing tons of money on a game and just try to make something fun to play
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itchy01ca01: It will, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been watching the stock market, gauging public opinion or watching the declining sales numbers of the AAA games company of rising sales of the indie game companies.
It's going to happen, eventually. Slowly, or quickly, it will still happen. And I can't wait :)
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grunthos64: I don't see that as a crash, but the AAA companies toppling over and letting the indie type of games win out. I think there will be a day where AAA publishers will stop throwing tons of money on a game and just try to make something fun to play
But then, Ice Cube and other celebrities turned not very good voice actors will have almost nothing but royalties to live on.
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AnimalMother117: Anybody else not like the word "gamer?" I just hate saying it, don't know why.
I think it's an insanely pointless term. What is a "gamer" at this point? Anyone who ever plays video games? That's a human at this point (well, in the West anyway). My wife plays phone games daily when waiting for the bus or whatever, that doesn't put her in the same group as myself, playing classic and modern PC RPG, stealth and shooter games. And I'm not the same as a college dude playing CoD on weekends or a JRPG nut or on and on and on and on.

It's too eclectic now to simply say "gamer" and have it mean a damn thing.
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AnimalMother117: Anybody else not like the word "gamer?" I just hate saying it, don't know why.
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StingingVelvet: I think it's an insanely pointless term. What is a "gamer" at this point? Anyone who ever plays video games? That's a human at this point (well, in the West anyway). My wife plays phone games daily when waiting for the bus or whatever, that doesn't put her in the same group as myself, playing classic and modern PC RPG, stealth and shooter games. And I'm not the same as a college dude playing CoD on weekends or a JRPG nut or on and on and on and on.

It's too eclectic now to simply say "gamer" and have it mean a damn thing.
I agree entirely, I was going to take conflict with the JRPG nut thing, but I can't deny it really (some of these you really have to like this kind of thing to like, so the term nut is applicable to me I suppose).
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Sufyan: You understand that both things you mentioned are to blame on gamers worldwide, yes? People should not pre-order 80 USD titles because that sends a signal that it is ok and even profitable to do it, and it is no surprise Valve finally admitted to themselves most of their customers do not care about the Half-Life universe as much as they are putting hundreds of hours into online shooters like Counter-Strike Global Offensive and Team Fortress 2. Hats are more important than stories.

I don't get why you think Quality Assurance has gotten worse. It has always been poor overall, spectacularly unfinished and unacceptable releases like Ride To Hell are hardly a sign of the times but an extreme exception to the normal level of mediocrity.

The "Video game industry" in the 80's was very different from the one we have today. For example, a large part of it was made up of arcade machines with very narrow profit margins. It was also a very young industry that hadn't fully worked out how things should be made and how to make money of it. It began in the hands of a few companies who made all the hardware as well as the software, but eventually they lost their sort of monopoly and suddenly they were making a lot less money than they did in the beginning. Today's game industry is a much more solid and worked out business that can deal with the twists and turns when new technology comes along or new laws are passed.

Today, with so much talent within the industry and on the indie scene, I think game development can survive or rebuild itself in no time no matter what could possibly happen.
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Magmarock: I don't really agree with this,
While I understand that gamers should be more vigilant with their money, I wouldn't say they are to blame, at least not 100%

Quality assurance has defiantly been on the decline. You could say that it's the consumers job to be informed, but it's not really the consumers job to check such things. Also with places like IGN giving such intrust worthy reviews, simply finding the right information about a game can be a chore. I think this is all going to back fire in a big way.

Finlay while the industry might be different from what it was in the 80s the conditions that caused the crash are starting to reappear. An over abundance of poor quality products with no reliable information to inform you as to what you should buy. The market was saturated with horrible games games and no way on knowing the good from the bad. That's kind of where we are now if you look at Steam.
I don't like saying "apples and oranges", but I think I need to reiterate and stress that the 1980's US video game market was VASTLY different from todays market. It was much smaller, much more centralised and still in it's uncertain infancy. If a single company happened upon hard times they constituted a large percentage of the market. Today the US market is not made up entirely of American companies and there are simply many more American companies making up the total games industry. Hardware and software are almost completely separate, a single company does not need to master both so the stakes are lower than in the 80's. The game development industry is probably one of the most diverse entertainment industries in the world today, more so than music and cinema. Because of it's strong technological nature it is also one of the most adaptable industries, seemlessly transitioning into whatever is most attractive to it's customers (unlike the music and cinema industries that are very slow and even fighting it's customers to keep a business model that has worked since the ~1950's). The conditions that toppled the static big names in the 80's are not enough to topple the meshed web of big and small names that exist today.

As for us consumers, it's not about being vigilant or informed, it's about voting with our wallets. Exceptionally expensive releases and chopping up game content into DLC should not be encouraged and the only way you can do this is by not paying what they ask for. They don't care about forum rants on these subjects. Because people keep pre-ordering at ridiculous prices, the publishers feel confident and enjoy swimming in money. I don't see how this is a sign of a coming crash. Quite the opposite actually.
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pigdog: I don't think it'll crash but I think the prices of new, AAA titles is close to the tipping point of freezing out some potential customers. That said, if someone pays $80 for a game, it's still more profitable that 2 people paying $35.

One thing is for sure, the industry talent doesn't just lie with the programmers and developers but also financial analysts and marketing/research specialists. Of course, there is a possibility that their forecasts prove over-inflated but so much data is collected from gamers that there are accurate models for each target audience group....i.e. age, disposable income, free-time etc..

Without having any evidence to back this up; I also think that games are going to evolve significantly after the PS4, XBox One generation which could stimulate the industry significantly. IMO, the new consoles leave me feeling a bit apathetic and not the least tempted.
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hedwards: I don't think the AAA games are really the issue, I think the issue is the games that aren't AAA but where the studios are expecting to be paid as if they're AAA games. That's really where the bubble is IMHO, the fact that somebody could conceive of that goat simulator and expect to be paid for it, is clear evidence that we're in the midst of a bubble.
I would have to agree with this. It's not going to be a crash but a popped bubble where the good will rise to the top, while others will disappear into the ether.
As for us consumers, it's not about being vigilant or informed, it's about voting with our wallets. Exceptionally expensive releases and chopping up game content into DLC should not be encouraged and the only way you can do this is by not paying what they ask for. They don't care about forum rants on these subjects. Because people keep pre-ordering at ridiculous prices, the publishers feel confident and enjoy swimming in money. I don't see how this is a sign of a coming crash. Quite the opposite actually.
Eventually, economic theory says as prices rise, and people see less and less value, those people will stop buying, period. It's slowly coming to the point where people are realizing how crappy AAA games are, and are starting to vote with their wallets. Things like steam sales are helping that. People aren't buying games at top prices. Not according to the stock markets and the fact that AAA games companies keep offloading their development teams. All signs point to some sort of crash in the AAA game companies. Indie games may take up the slack. We'll see.
If any part of the games industry is likely to crash, it'll be the Japanese market. At the hands of Japanese publishers. All it will take is for them to continue as they currently are, with the addition of carrying over current retail pricing practices onto smart phone targeted products (which are already seen as the reason for a decline in quality by gamers here).

The only reason such mobile gaming is popular here now is because it's cheap compared to traditional gaming and the fact it's not generally subjected to the same delays as console gaming. But once they start trying to charge $70+ for a an iOS game, it won't be long before a crash truly occurs.

I'd say such a crash of the Japanese market is more likely to happen than not, simply because Japanese publishers are too bloody stubborn to change their ways. It's not a matter of "if" any more. But more of "when".

As for a crash of the industry as a whole? That's not likely at all. Even when the US had their crash in the 80s, gaming marched on just fine elsewhere.
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bansama: If any part of the games industry is likely to crash, it'll be the Japanese market.
It kills me to say that this is a pretty likely scenario, considering I love Japanese games and things in general. Console space is getting smaller (I read that PS4 needs to hold up this momentum for a long while or else it risks being sold off), possible over saturation of Japanese games to console/ serious audiences (How many RPGs alone came out on PS3 when development costs leveled out?), some business practices probably do need to change, but which ones and how many varies between the different companies. For what it's worth, I heard Square was going to change parts of their business model. That could be good, if they make good games still (or start to again). Don't be too sure that American firms and European ones won't see problems, it seems even when Activision is doing well they still need to downsize, they and EA it seems (as always, correct me if I'm wrong). Expect sooner or later the yearly release model will lead to at least a couple miserable failures (like, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, or Battlefield, any other yearly's?)