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General discussion (archive)Games better left to Nostalgia(168 posts)(168 posts)
(168 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 08, 2013
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Barefoot_Monkey: Did you miss all the warnings that you should start with at least Ultima 4? Well, I'm impressed that you managed to power through the first three.
I just didn't feel like starting with the fourth one since I bought the whole series from GOG (and kinda the main reason why I showed interest in the Ultima series was to learn some stuff about cRPG history - so playing the games in order was kinda obligatory). :P The really awful thing is that it's been months since I beat Ultima 3 now and I'm still too exhausted of this shit to take on U4.
Posted January 08, 2013
I want to thank everyone above regarding Ultima. I recently won them in here and I was JUST about to go in order because I'm anal but if pushing through 1-3 is going to kill attacking the other better ones, think I'll have to make an exception. Seriously, thank you.
Posted January 08, 2013
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F4LL0UT: I beat Ultima 3 now and I'm still too exhausted of this shit to take on U4.
Haha, why? :D I know they are pretty shallow and dumb, but THAT bad? :D Ultima 4 is the first big cRPG with actual story, so I would recommend you to put your shit together and play!

(but interface and gameplay is still similar to ultima 3 :D) [you can install graphics mods though]
Posted January 08, 2013
Ultima Underworld didn't age well. In terms of level design, magic variety, and overall gameplay it is pretty good...but there are some major flaws for me.

1: Inventory Management is hell in this game. I can appreciate the game is going for a realistic bent by giving gold weight and having the player use packs to store the goods, but the system feels clunky and is time consuming. A player vault to keep things in would have been really nice.

2: Not all skills are equal. For example, a maxed Lore skill would fail to identify items. The player is better left to focusing on a magic build, because magic is very versatile once you get the required runes and skills. Some skills like Swim, Lore, and Tracking are rendered obsolete. This is an extremely bad design flaw in my opinion.

3: Trading is a pain. You can't see the entire inventory of an NPC, and giving them your stuff is probably hiding their remaining inventory.

4: The lack of an ingame journal is rather unfortunate. It would have been nice if things like the meanings of lizardmen speech were automatically recorded, as well with crucial points that an NPC would mention. Ditto with rune combinations.

PROS of the game
+Automap, that allows you to add notes.
+Fun to explore
+Magic is nifty.

I think that I would manage to finish this run of the game, but I am hoping that we get an Avernum Underworld game or the like someday. If you are interested in Ultima Underworld but want to try something more modern, I recommend: Legend of Grimrock, STALKER, Thief, Thief 2, and System Shock 2.
Posted January 08, 2013
The D&D games. I have the entire D&D collection on GOG and if it wasn't for nostalgia I would not bother with them. I wouldn't really recommend them to a new gamer. Except maybe PS:T.
Posted January 08, 2013
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Sabin_Stargem: If you are interested in Ultima Underworld but want to try something more modern, I recommend: Legend of Grimrock, STALKER, Thief, Thief 2, and System Shock 2.
You haven't played arx fatalis ?
Posted January 08, 2013
A little, but I haven't made much progress with it - I had issues with the magic gestures. I am hoping that the Arx Libertatis project would fix that up by the time I get around to trying Arx Fatalis again.
Posted January 08, 2013
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Ghorpm: You can build Fremen troops in both Dune 2 and 2000 playing as Atreides. They were however useless and weak, respectively.
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F4LL0UT: True, they were useless in Dune 2 but actually I used them quite a lot in Dune 2000. IIRC they were pretty powerful compared to other infantry units and you get them for free - I remember summoning big and powerful groups of them. And didn't they also use camouflage or something? Although I must admit that my memory is a little vague in case of this game for some reason. o_O
Well... technically you are right. They might be useful (and yes, they did have a camouflage) The question is... why bother? They are for free, ok but by the time you get them you should have a competent army that can do just fine without them. Once I replayed Dune 2000 with an assumption that I will rely mostly on special units. I admit it was fun but not necessary and in many cases quite difficult. Except for the House Harkonnen but that's not surprising. Long story short - Fremen might be useful but I doubt you would ever think: "Wow! It was SO much easier with them". I used them only for nostalgic reason. Stilgar rocks! ;)
Posted January 08, 2013
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Sabin_Stargem: Ultima Underworld didn't age well. In terms of level design, magic variety, and overall gameplay it is pretty good...but there are some major flaws for me.

1: Inventory Management is hell in this game. I can appreciate the game is going for a realistic bent by giving gold weight and having the player use packs to store the goods, but the system feels clunky and is time consuming. A player vault to keep things in would have been really nice.

2: Not all skills are equal. For example, a maxed Lore skill would fail to identify items. The player is better left to focusing on a magic build, because magic is very versatile once you get the required runes and skills. Some skills like Swim, Lore, and Tracking are rendered obsolete. This is an extremely bad design flaw in my opinion.

3: Trading is a pain. You can't see the entire inventory of an NPC, and giving them your stuff is probably hiding their remaining inventory.

4: The lack of an ingame journal is rather unfortunate. It would have been nice if things like the meanings of lizardmen speech were automatically recorded, as well with crucial points that an NPC would mention. Ditto with rune combinations.

PROS of the game
+Automap, that allows you to add notes.
+Fun to explore
+Magic is nifty.

I think that I would manage to finish this run of the game, but I am hoping that we get an Avernum Underworld game or the like someday. If you are interested in Ultima Underworld but want to try something more modern, I recommend: Legend of Grimrock, STALKER, Thief, Thief 2, and System Shock 2.
There are certainly elements about Ultima Underworld that have not aged well. I did find that once you got past them, though, the game was surprisingly fun and immersive.
Posted January 08, 2013
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keeveek: Well, I played Dune 2, the browser version. It was quite fun! So is Dune 1.
But as I've said, if there is Dune 2000 avaible, there is really no actual need to play Dune 2 - as
far as I know, Dune 2000 is the same game as Dune 2, but with modernished graphics and interface.
(yes, right click is supported :P)
I replayed both Dune 2 and Dune 2000 through maybe a year ago. Dune 2000 is a remake alright with better UI, but I still felt it is a different game and experience to Dune 2. I think even the maps were different, so it wasn't just a HD remake with better graphics (and UI).

Dune 2 interface certainly is clunky (mainly that you need to micromanage each of your units individually), but it helped me to think that e.g. X-Com 1-2 have even more irritating micromanagement. :)

And I re-played Dune 2 mostly for its MT-32 music anyway...
Posted January 08, 2013
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orcishgamer: Diablo 2, for sure, which is why I suspect so many still think so highly of it. It was amazing for
its time, simply it had a lot of nasty warts which other games managed to remove from their game
play.
Note: I know there's exceptions, Frater:)
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Robette: Just no... I replayed it recently with the median xl mod and that plays out great. I never played
path of the exile but aside from that, I really do think that the hack&slay genre is a genre where
many games did strife to copy the aspects that made diablo good and just failed on a regular
basis.

Aside from that, any N64 title that is not zelda probably belongs on the list. (Well, actually I do still get something out of mystical ninja staring goemon)
So you must use mods to make the game palatable... that's pretty much making my point for me donchathink?

D2 is clunky as fuck with pretty terrible mechanics in comparison to a lot of entries in the genre. I'm not saying it was bad when it came out, just that it's been unlucky in simply not aging well.
Post edited January 08, 2013 by orcishgamer
Posted January 08, 2013
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Aningan: The D&D games. I have the entire D&D collection on GOG and if it wasn't for nostalgia I would not bother with them. I wouldn't really recommend them to a new gamer. Except maybe PS:T.
Hm, no. I'll have to disagree here. I found the interface intuitive, the story-telling ranges from "eh, it's alright" in the first BG and the originl NWN to pretty good in the IWD games, to "man that's really good!" in BG 2 and Hordes of the Underdark to beyond awesome in Torment. Once you get into the rule system(s), I'm convinced that those games can still be a lot of fun.
Post edited January 08, 2013 by Nergal01
Posted January 08, 2013
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keeveek: Haha, why? :D I know they are pretty shallow and dumb, but THAT bad? :D
Dude, you have NO idea. Ultima 1 made me spend hours on the same two or three floors of the same dungeon killing zillions of mooks, Ultima 2 made me spend probably 20+ hours on a pirate ship looking for weakling enemies to kill and who spawn far too slowly (and almost always on the other side of the planet), Ultima 3 made me loot the same rooms hundreds of times - after some time I could actually go down multiple floors and loot every single chest without looking at the screen. I almost went crazy because of that repetitive shit.

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keeveek: (but interface and gameplay is still similar to ultima 3 :D) [you can install graphics mods though]
Yeah, I already applied some of those mods to Ultima 2 and 3. But at least the interface of U4 has some great improvements over U3, most importantly they finally introduced a shared inventory. Managing food and equipment in U3 was pure torture.
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orcishgamer: D2 is clunky as fuck with pretty terrible mechanics in comparison to a lot of entries in the genre. I'm not saying it was bad when it came out, just that it's been unlucky in simply not aging well.
Thank God, another human being that thinks so. Whenever I complain about D2 and use later CRPGs that fixed a few of its flaws as examples to make my point I get attacked by dozens of people. You have no idea how often I've heard "oh yeah? then why did D2 sell better? why are people still playing D2 while nobody even remembers the game you're talking about?" Stupid brainless Blizzard fanboys.
Post edited January 08, 2013 by F4LL0UT
Posted January 08, 2013
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orcishgamer: So you must use mods to make the game palatable... that's pretty much making my point for me donchathink?

D2 is clunky as fuck with pretty terrible mechanics in comparison to a lot of entries in the genre. I'm not saying it was bad when it came out, just that it's been unlucky in simply not aging well.
I got the game around the time when it was released and still played some of its mods in 2012. I do not think that makes your point.
Posted January 08, 2013
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Robette: I got the game around the time when it was released and still played some of its mods in 2012. I do not think that makes your point.
Epic timing, dude (see the last chapter in the post above yours to get what I mean).
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Games better left to Nostalgia(168 posts)(168 posts)
(168 posts)