I have most of these games and I'd still rather play co-op Diablo 2 than the majority of them. I do not contest that it has been far surpassed in the graphical department, but no other ARPG has trumped it in gameplay for me. I haven't tried Path of Exile yet, but based on all of the other games you're putting above Diablo 2 that I have played, I get the impression that you enjoy the genre for different mechanics than I do. That's perfecly fine, but most people will agree that Diablo 2 is still a very enjoyable ARPG to this day.

I don't know, I played the NES Battletoads games last year and still had some fun with them :) They're some of the games from the NES that I can still play and have fun with in spurts.

I'm assuming you're talking about the SNES game? If it's anything like the NES game, I must applaud you for beating it without dying. In the NES games, beating it on co-op was damn near impossible too because giving your friend a huge boot to blast them off the screen and then laughing about it was too much fun. It happened unintentionally quite often too, which was still funny.

The Battletoads arcade games are some of the first I would try if I ever get around to trying out MAME.

Ya, it was the SNES version. From what I've seen, beating the NES version is harder, but they do have a most of level themes. The snake level really throws an interesting dynamic into knocking your friends/being knocked off the edge of the screen, so it was a lot of fun. The interesting part was that Pimple was bigger, but when they jumped, their heads reached the same height, his legs would extend farther down, so it was actually harder to jump over spikes with him than Rash.

Since aesthetically I far prefer isometric 2D and pseudo-3D backdrops in games, whether they be adventure games, action, cRPG or strategy, I didn't find Diablo 2 to be a "dated" gaming experience at all when I booted it up again about six months ago. And the gameplay mechanics still seemed very solid to me, especially compared to Diablo 1, which I think an air-tight case can be made for it truly *being* dated. Graphically I still found it (Diablo 2) absorbing and atmospheric; the various decayed dungeons,churches and the like suitably ominous. The art design in games like Torchlight and Dungeon Seige I find chintzy and hideous, and the characters gaudily colored balloon animals. Take a couple of Diablo clones from the same generation (circa '99-00) of games: Darkstone and Nox. I'd rather play Nox.

That's just my bias. Admittedly I don't play this genre very much. I wasn't interested in Diablo 3 and haven't played it. The heads-up on Path of Exile and especially Grim Dawn *did* very much pique my interest, however. That's more of a look I'm drawn to. Hopefully, as indie-games, they'll have modest system requirements.

I agree with Ultima Underground, despite being revelatory on release, being dated now, and this is from an old Origin fanboy talking. However Ultima VII still can hold its own 20 years later, IMO.

Blood is one game that definitely should have been left to nostalgia for me. The experience of trying to play it again after I bought it on GOG during some Halloween sale was jarring, to say the least.

I played quite a few of them and none was even CLOSE of being as fun as Diablo 2+LOD.
The closest one was Titan Quest+exp, but still Diablo 2 is the king.

Pin the Tail on the Donkey

Will get you arrested, or worse, if you go about pinning a tail on every jackass you see. I'm sore already.

Was it the controls or the gameplay?

The controls. Blood was one of the last gen of so-called "2.5D" FPS before true 3D and the modern "mouselook" perspective took hold. And I found it impossible to adjust to again. I kept moving my mouse around to gain a perspective that wasn't there. The enemies in Blood are pitiless in giving you grief too. I got a crash course in remembering how uncannily accurate those endless cultists were. I must have had more patience for slogging through it when I was younger. But in the end it simply wasn't fun.

I'm tempted to add Thunderscape, but I'm sure the awesomeness is still there.
( http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/world_of_aden_thunderscape since I can't get links working on the forum now.)

At least it was when I started playing it again a year or so (two?) ago. Note to self, must fire it up again soon to continue my save. Think I ended in the mines trying to find that NPC (dude with the spear/trident) down there to recruit.

Mouselook is actually in all Build Engine games, although by default it feels very weird (has something to do with the way that it calculates mouse movement, and probably the fact that it's a BSP engine). bMouse can be used to make it work a little better (although still not perfect):

http://www.gog.com/forum/blood_series/bmouse_0_5_mouse_driver_that_fixes_the_terrible_mouselook_on_dos_build_games

You could also get the Blood launcher, which has bMouse implemented by default, has controls preconfigured to make more sense, and has a crap ton of handy ways to tweak the game and a bunch of mods. I'd consider it all but required for the game (since they still haven't released the source code for us to get a proper fan port like eDuke):

http://www.gog.com/forum/blood_series/one_unit_whole_blood_launcher_map_and_mod_collection_too

Gameplay-wise, the problem with Blood is that enemies have nearly instantaneous reaction times, and generally don't miss you even if you're moving. These are both unfortunate gameplay decisions that plagued all the Build Engine games (Blood most of all), and in my opinion keep them from being as easy to enjoy today as Doom 1/2, despite having better aesthetic design and more interesting gameplay mechanics (Doom's enemies didn't immediately attack when they saw you, and IIRC even hitscan enemies could be dodged by smart movement. Combat felt a lot more fluid as a result, since taking damage was more your own fault rather than being unavoidable). In Blood's case, the first few levels are brutally, brutally difficult. Weirdly enough, though, the game tends to get easier as you move into later episodes (although I haven't gotten to the last one, so I'm not sure if the difficulty ratchets up at the end or not). And once you get used to the fact that you have to approach areas very carefully, the combat can actually be really exciting and satisfying. Think of it along the same lines as Hotline Miami. It requires some tactical thinking and some trial and error, not just adrenaline.


Oh, and protip for dealing with the horribly difficult gray gargoyles: they can't do anything to you if you crouch :P.

Anyway, I can totally understand being put off by the game, because it has some noticeably unfortunate issues. But I still find it to be a ton of fun once you get used to it. And once you get mouselook working, of course.

Actually, the easiest way to deal with them, I find, was to grab mr. Shotty, wait till they got close, and KABOOM

Also, arguing with anjohl is awesome. I love how he keeps claiming objectivity and proof and never actually comes up with any of those.
You know, 'It's better, because ... Because ... Because ... Because your momma sucks!' ... Oh wait, no, 'It's better because everyone claims it isn't and when you claim it is you're pushed aside by society!'

Were I a wiser man, I wouldn't argue with him in the first place. He's never going to change his mind on anything, regardless of what I or anyone else says.

These were some very constructive suggestions, actually. You may have just convinced me to give it one more go 'round the carousel wheel. Thanks.

The main problem that Civ 1 has is Civ 2. Civ 2 takes everything that worked in Civ 1 and improves upon it. It is a straight up upgrade of the original. The later civs are different enough for it to be a matter of taste, but the first civ has simply been surpassed.