So, after finishing Dishonored and Bioshock Infinite pretty much right after each other, I've discovered something weird: While the storyline of BI was pretty damn awesome (especially because of all the detail that has been put into it), I felt myself much more drawn in and caring about the story of Dishonored, even if people tend to claim that it sucks.

Now, I would ask 'Why is that', but I think I have answered this question myself already: Bioshock Infinite had a story which was slowly building up towards an end, something that creators wanted to tell us without much of our interference. As complex as this story is, there's very little advantage to this approach when compared to books or movies - on the other hand, games do have some unique storytelling elemets, like exploration and telling a story via environments, which other media can't quite use to such an extent, and Bioshock has used these very nicely.

On the other hand, Dishonored is designed in an entirely different fashion, it almost seems like a polar opposite of BI - story is much less complex, but it adjusts to how do you play the game. Now this is the important bit - it doesn't adjust to choices you make in dialogue, but is directly tied in to the core gameplay (that is not to say that this doesn't apply to games where making choices in dialogue is the core gameplay, like Walking Dead), which just suddenly makes me care about the story a whole lot more, because I quite simply feel involved in the outcome.

And I quite simply want more games which do Dishonored and less games which do Bioshock Infinite - now that is my personal preference, I'm not saying that should actually be the case. So my questions to you are these:

What do you think of how story should be told in videogames? Linear, more complex or branched and shorter/less thought-trough?

Do you want story to be intrusive to gameplay (like The Witcher or Mass Effect series, however, it could easily be argued that dialogue in these games is a big part of gameplay and I would agree), or revolve around core mechanics (Dishonored)?

I want a game's story to NOT interfere with the game. Having cutscenes interrupt your game and having your character doing/saying things that you yourself would never do/say can be particularly jarring and rage-inducing. So yes, I do believe that choice does matter. It also ensures that by replaying a game you can have a different experience.

There is no "correct" way to tell a story. We need ALL options. Linear, canned stories are good. choices and sandbox games are good too. If you choose one over the other and make all games the same way, you will kill the medium.

So, I don't see an issue. I need the storytelling mechanics of all games and some yet to be delivered to us yet. In fact, I have stopped playing one game at a time. I now intentionally pick multiple games with different approaches to play at once so I can swap between them. Their differences from each other keep them fresh and fun.

Agreed with what you said. 'Issue' was not quite the word I should have used.

Why when you say that do I think of max payne 3

I strangely don't care a huge lot about stories in games. The stories I get most involved in are my own : the ones that are built by my characters activities. Maybe that's what you mean with Dishonored. As I haven't played it, I have the Elder Scrolls and Fallout more in mind. Or even Elite. The story of my character WAS where he went, ehere, what he did, whether it was part of a "quest" or not. And by "quest" I even mean the secondary ones, as i tend to simply ditch the main story quests - precisely because they are the part that is most independant from me (what you'd call the Bioshock part, I suppose).

So, okay, you may have a predesigned general story. What I like, then, is to keep it minimal, like pins allowing you to link them with strings of all shapes and trajectories, making your own drawing with it. Maybe that's what timelords call "fixed points in time and space". They are points. Gates maybe. i agree to cross them, but at my rythm, and with the freedom of doing what I want how I want in-between. My narration is not something that is written by the authors, even if they might have built the lego pieces of what I build with them.

That's why I'm more at ease with games about which people tend to complain that they feel too much lost, and not "guided" enough...

The best stories from video games I remember come mostly from adventure games. So the answer would be - the best way to tell a great story is to make it linear. It gives more time to focus on details to the designers than to secure every end and choice.

Best story, II don't know, but a plot twist and ending worthy of "Sixth Sense" and "Usual Suspects" fans, then go KOTOR 1 for sure.

Ultimately it's just a bonus though and if gameplay is good, the story could be beyond shit or non-existent and it doesn't bother me at all.

Actually, this is what I meant with Dishonored, this exact thing. Just do whatever you want, how you want to do it, and as long as you achieve a goal that you're given, the story of the game will adjust to your actions.

As for 'making your own story' kind of games, I love those as well, but they need to have a lot of context and their own background to draw me in - Elder Scrolls is just by far the best example of this, as it feels like a world of its own. Of course, this is something that can only be very little influenced by how the game is written and how the story is told - TES games tend to have a very linear story when you look at what the game's scriptwriters gave you.

Mhm, I got more out of Dishonored, as well. Me, I don't absolutely need to have a complex, involving storyline, if the gameplay and the setting support each other well.

Besides, I find it increasingly annoying when stories pretty much shove their message down your throat, particularly if that message is "you have no choice but to follow the railroad. You may object but that is pointless. We're in control here, not you". Ken Levine's latest games are prime examples of that. >_>

Ironically enough, the first Bioshock was a game all about player's lack of choice, yet is a game with a pretty damn varied gameplay, especially when compared to other FPS games.

Games like Infinite? ;)

I agree with you, though.

Depends on the game.

Modern RPGs (do what you want to and see what happens): branched only. If there are characterization decisions to make - including, but not limited to, chargen - and the plot is still linear, that's a shitty message to include in a game. "No matter what you do, X still happens. No matter who you are, you have to behave like an idiot and choose A or B, but not the blindingly obvious choice C that devs didn't include because it'll destroy their "artistic choice".

Adventures (figure out the "correct" thing to do or the plot won't move forward at all): whatever.

Other games where the story is as afterthought (strategies, puzzles): more, better, branched stories, please; it lends momentum to the game. The latter, 100% (although, with regards to The Witcher and Mass Effect, I'd argue the opposite - that the experience of being a fantasy monster hunter / space operatic hero is a big part of "the story").

You know how Jennifer Hepler got hate for saying "some people aren't interested in the game, they want to skip all the shooting and get to the story" or something like this? Well, that's crap. There needs to be a beginner difficulty in RPGs - specifically so that even "noobs" could feel like heroes. If people who are interested in "the story" might want to skip the core game, your game is bad and you should feel bad.

(As good a thread as any to praise Anodyne.)

I simply loved the ME series and that started with the first game, where you can say the mechanics were pretty bleh. Combat was nothing to be mentioned but then again, the dialogue system is what mattered (not as much as we were lead to believe by Bioware, but nonetheless).

That said, I like my games to have a powerful story. For me games like Skyrim, with no pivotal main story don't have such an appeal to me.

I do have to say I haven't played that many RPGs (or RPG hybrids. Or games in general xD) to really have a good overview. I did finish DA:O and I'Ve started playing The Witcher, but that's not much :D
Ask me again in 5 years or so :P