How interesting. I feel like I should respond here.

a) I wasn't at all ready to jump on you whatsoever, as if you noticed I was still fixated on Muttly. You're trying to imply objectively untrue motives on my actions.

b) If Muttly turned out to be town, it meant I had to rethink my theoretical mafia. When he claimed a very reasonable and likely claim, obviously I rethought the most likely scummy targets. Lo and behold you decide to swap to itai within the same post, among other earlier trangressions.

c) I've explained what's "behind" my vote several times already. First you appear to be role fishing, then you have a claim that reads sour to me. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I didn't give any reasons. If you want to make my case look weak, try refutin' instead of accusin'.

d) Nice deduction. You're playing Orryyrro's role. If he was acting suspicious, of course it transfers over. For all intents and purposes you are the exact same person.

e) If I was looking for a quick lynch I would have tried to swap targets already. It seems you're pretty safe today, but I'm pretty convinced you have something to hide. Therefore the vote stays.

Some of your previous posts beg to differ:

(Bold code removed to prevent it looking like I'm trying to vote myself)

At this point, I have my doubts that you weren't ready to jump on me. You even said that if Muttly proves town then it's bad news for me.

Then there's this:

This was before Muttly even claimed, so I didn't switch my vote to pressure Itai. This lead me to asking what reasons, which lead to post 730 that I posted above where you said you don't have much beyond suspecting Orryyrro a lot on the first day.

And I have asked about these 'transgressions' a few times and never really got a straight answer. See my response to A...because, hey, there's the vote post and there's STILL no sign of these transgressions except for the claim that I was searching for roles.

Here's my defense and refuting the claim that I was rolefishing itai. http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_10/post767
]Here's me refuting your claim that I was hunting for role claims to look for a 'potential nightkill'[/url].

Here's the short version: My case against Muttly was me reading him as scum, I repeatedly stated that, and I didn't even push him to claim. I had a case that quite a few people thought was credible, and what happened was something I didn't think would happen.

Itai had pushed that he thought pushing Muttly to be lynched was a bad idea, and he stated that he didn't believe that Muttly's lynch of Baron was luck based. Granted, we know that NOW, and even know the why to it. But at that point that information wasn't out there, and I put a pressure vote on him to find out why he said that without elaborating. When Muttly put out what his breadcrumb was, I retracted my vote because anything Itai said in regard would be hard to prove.

Except....I'm NOT Orryyrro. You can't attribute posts or reads from Orryyrro to me because of this simple fact. I don't know what he was thinking, why he did the things he did, anything. I type differently, I talk differently, I think differently, and I play differently. There's only so far you can take this before you are putting words and posts in my mouth. Am I accused of lurking day 1 because Orryyrro was?

I'm pretty safe today? We're about 2 days from deadline (if that), and I have the most votes on me, and two people have pretty much said that their vote stays on me. I've already claimed so it's not a 'oh shit, he's a major power role so we have to find someone else fast or else we lose the lynch' moment. And I have people debating my claim. I'm nowhere near safe and I know it.

If you feel like repeatedly flogging a dead horse will eventually beat a case out of it, be my guest. I've stated my reasoning several times, including that little tidbit about calling you a back-up suspect.

I was ready to vote you if muttly turned out to be town because of the massive wagon you built against muttly, because of the way Orryyrro acted in day one and because there were basically only three people in my mind that could be scum in that outcome, you among them, and I assumed there were three scum. Then he turns out to be town. Shock of shocks! I voted! How scummy, to vote for someone you find suspicious!

Even then, I still held off because after rereading your posts I started to doubt my suspicions. But then you start pulling other moves. I felt better about my case against you. Boom, vote.

Not a bad defence. It sort of makes sense, except that why would itai be against mislynching a cop if he was scum? We knew Muttly's role at that point, and you were ready to pressure a claim from the one person who didn't want the town cop lynched. Even if you are town (which I doubt) do you see how that looks like role fishing, even with your reasons? You say you weren't role fishing, but just putting on a pressure vote to get more information. Am I crazy for considering the two of them one and the same?

Trying to distance yourself from Orryrro is ridiculous. You and Orryyrro are playing the same role. Yes, you have a different playstyles. Nothing he did can be attributed to you, but it can be attributed to the role you are playing in the game.

Anyway, if you have something new to bring up please do so. But I don't plan to get duped into Muttly-and-Baronesque back and forth sniping. The facts seem pretty clear to me.

My reads so far, in no particular order.

TwilightBard: I'm not fully convinced of his claim which makes him my prime suspect on a day where I feel little new evidence has emerged.

Vitek: So much chopping and changing of opinions and positions (whether sacrcastic complex joke or not). Not to mention the constant request for info from everyone while giving so little away himself. I'm half inclined to belive that Muttly's info was manipulated by the scum. If it wasn't for Muttly's info my vote would be on him.

I'm a little wary of Pazzer.

Not sure about Itai.Sharim, PenutBrittle. I can't really get anything on them though I think Itai.Sharim figured out Muttly so I guess that puts him at the town side of not sure.

I'm thinking town on Joe and Rob. Muttly's claim ring true, of course.

@ Twilight; No he can. You play the same character. This is something you can't defend against so best way is to play better than his scummy behaviour to amend this. This comes backs to something Joe poseted in this game about replacements. If person you replace claims scum before you can't just dismiss it and say it can't be taken into account. I has to be.

@ Stuart; I swear I am starting to get feeling you've got some personal vendetta against me as you are onto me for the whole game. Is it because the number thing, mister 9001?

@ pazzer; Joe wasn't on all 3 wagons and this was the main part I was pointing out. The 3rd and 4th place has been brought up by jesskitten in game 2 or 3 and was used several times here. It is based on this old guide.

@ Peanut; Thanks, that was probably the only good answer you could provide. I saw you had him as firm town before so I wanted to see if your reads are honest. Also, you mentioned you had scum team in mind in case muttly is scum and another one in case he is town. I saw you mentioned person who are scums in case he flipped mafia but apart TB I am missing others who are likely scums now.

One thing that Peanut said buggers me. He mentioned nmillar, names and bureaucrat. This led me to believe something like in Game 3 could be going on. To those who don't know, there was Jack meeting and all mafia were not named Jack and sneaked on that meeting. Maybe there is something similar going on here and there are persons who don't belong here. An dmaybe nmillar had ability to find who's on the guests list and so he wanted to know Red_Baron's name.

And another flavourgaming thing. Remember Red_Baron? He was Security Guard, right? And in nmillar death scene there is said that without security guard bartender had to take emergency access card to get into nmillar room. Isn't it strange when we have claimed Head of Security among us?

Read closer, I am head of security for Everyoung, not the hotel or wherever we are.

That is the one thing that bothers me with Peanut's answer. One person cannot build a wagon on his own. Rob, Pazzer and Peanut himself were on that wagon as well and there was Vitek ready to vote. Blaming it all on one person is not fair in my opinion. BTW, that is the same issue I have with Rob attacking Muttly.

However, I do agree with Peanut about TB playing the same character as Ory.

@Vitek - Maybe nmillar had the list of all the guests who were invited. I guess the MOD will tell us when the game is over.

This I get for not paying attention to flavour. Until now I thought Everyoung is hotel we are in.

OK, nothing to see here than. :-)

I would be up for name claim but I don't think we have time for that.

I am not at this point. It seems pretty clear that names have power, and if we had a role that could use them (bureaucrat) then I wouldn't be surprised if mafia had a role that could use them.

Muttly's claim messed up my reads so these are mainly based on gut instinct.
Would have liked to get a few more reactions but there isn't really time for that.

Muttly – No one has counter claimed cop.

Vitek – Has been making what I see as odd posts all game. But is carefully following the thread and appears to be re reading. See these as things a town player would do.

Twilight – His claim seems to have slowed the game done. While everyone trys to work out who this other John Smith is. Can't see a vanilla having extra info. My best guess is a town lyncher which means the other John Smith is mafia.

Stuart - Day 1 reaction reminds me of way I reacted in game 2.

Rob - Seems to be playing how he normally does.

Joe – Made me laugh a few times with his posts. Seems to be considering all the opinions no matter how unlikely. Unvoted with deadline close, town normally leave votes on as want lynch. As get info from it.

Penut – Some strange play. Voted for Muttly but soon after said something like if anyone hammers Muttly before he can claim i'll hound them for the rest of the game. Pointed out my vote was still on Muttly.

Itai – Sneakily pointed out my vote was still on Muttly. Pushing to lynch Rob.

Yet more of Pazzer leaving his trail of "I'm town" posts... This is such a see-through excuse for avoiding any suspicion on voting for a lynch. How is it town to have a completely ineffective vote? Town already has my claim, there is nothing more to be gained except if you feel the need to string me up, which Pazzer certainly hasnt asked for since. Plus he presented a completely modified view of his reads based on my claim. "messed up my reads " he said, so one could extrapolate that he believes the claim. How many townies keep their vote on the town cop?

Now he gets the best of both worlds! So does town leave their votes or remove them? I would say youre right, town doesnt lie. I would also say they dont feel they would lose all credibility to change a vote based on claims (especially if believed) unless they were trying to lay a path of "look how town I am" for the future.

I admit I got complete tunnel vision and couldn't see beon you being mafia. Which of course affected all my other reads. Along with leading me to make the rash statement about my vote.

As I said in game 8 I can't see a reason for town to ever lie. If I do remove my vote then I will have lied and the policy of lynch all liers will apply. We've already had one policy lynch this game.

Accept it might not matter to the other players and is more my hangup. So i'll ask everyone if I unvote will you policy lynch me?

erm - i dont think the 'lynch all liars' quite extends to breaking a self imposed rule. I could state 'I'm not going to post the word 'fart' today'....if I happened to use the word fart later on that day i wouldn't really expect someone to say - 'A liar! Lynch him!!'

Saying you will be voting for someone and NOT removing it come what may is fraught with problems - who knows what might be revealed in the posts that follow? No - I wouldn't be pushing for a policy lynch if you retracted.

Pre -edit .....my example is rubbish, but i like the word fart so I'm going to let it stand...;o)