Votecount:

5 - Red_Baron (Muttly, Pazzer, Stuart, Joesapphire, Peanutbrittle)
4 - Muttly13 (Robbeasy, Red_Baron, Nmillar, Twilightbard)
1 - Stuart9001 (Itai.sharim)

Not voting: , Vitek

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 8am GMT 26 January.

I actually believe this claim. Basically because its about the only thing I would have believed. However, survivors, ESPECILLY one with one shot kill abilities are generally anti-town. I cant see how we allow Baron to survive since we...

A - Have no idea how many mafia there are.
B - Making the assumption he is telling the truth.

The crux of the problem is there is nothing holding him to town. He says he wishes to play on our side but that doesnt make it so, he wins with anyone. We currently have 11, if we assume a standard game of 3 mafia (which, who knows, see problem 1) and we dont lynch Baron and mslynch someone else, along with the night kill that puts us at 5 vs 3 vs 1. He simply needs to whack one town and they are in reach of an easy win. Now, thats just one scenario, we can always make a correct lynch, but that really just pushes out the problem another day.

And for fairness sake, this could go towns way as well. For example, we choose to bypass the lynch on Baron and lynch one mafia correct today. That would allow us another day to consider at least keeping Baron around and making it more palpable to him to kill a mafia, ending the game that much quicker.

Bottom line, there is no trusting a survivor, especially one with a last minute "I win" button. So, I am content with lynching a third party player today instead of later but sooner or later lynch him we must in my opinion. Again, unless someone has a dead ringer mafia target for D2 lynch. And yes, I understand you all might think thats me, but then why would I suggest this? I also understand that this plays into the idea that Baron and I are in cahoots, and while I would love to be remembered as possibly the greatest mafia play of all time, that isnt the case as I am neither scum or scheming with Baron. Hence the reason my vote remains.

I would like to hear what some others have to say about this before the hammer though and would request it holds off until we have discussed a bit.

Sorry for the mis-spelling, especially on a highlight.... Ahh well... Anyway...

@Baron - You didnt mention if this was limited to a day/night vig kill. Would you clarify please.

Its a oneshot kill - works only at night. Don't you think I would have killed you if it worked at day ;) Nah, that would have been overpowered. By the way, even if you argument for my kill, I like your last two posts a lot more than all the others combined. Just a note of something: If I win with both, why would I kill a town when I could also kill a scum? Heck how would I even know who was who? My choice with my kill would be only to use it if something was agreed upon by the majority in here... Otherwise it would just make me a risk if I just blatantly act upon it.

I don't know. Survivor's usual play is to stay low and don't draw attention, right? This doesn't match Red's actions at all.

True :) And I would never have revealed it unless it was because I kinda feel more for hunting the scum now than surviving :) I was kinda proud at how I didn't appear to be a survivor. Problem is, if I get lynched without revealing it first, then all will just say, heck he was a survivor, close to scum or something like that. I want town to win, not scum. Thiefs and all the like should be killed.

Surviovor's role is to stay alive until end of the game no matter who wins. Therefore usual strategy for survivor player in mafia is to stay low and try not to draw attention of town to avoid lynch, avoid being too much scummy to avoid vigilante but not being too towny to avoid night kill. Red_Baron did nothing like this. When he started his casue he had to know it will draw huge amount of attention from everyone and it did. Now he looks scummy, possible target of vigilante for clearing things and target for mafia as dangerous player if he has pinned right target.

I understand your point about staying low and what he actually did. I am more looking for what you are suggesting now. Are you saying you dont beleive the claim and lynch him because you now think hes scum? Lynch him anyway as a survivor, not lynch him at all? Claiming hes a jester of some sort?

The problem is much more severe. Suppose we have a 7/3/1 setting and we mislynch. Tonight we can have 2 night kills - 1 mafia and 1 Baron which leaves us at 4/3/1 setting. In this scenario mafia can just clap their hands and go public asking Baron to side with them for a no-lynch at day 3. Mafia night kills and game over.

I'm going to say it, because, well, it needs to be said in my opinion. There's no reason to believe that we have multiple Mafia AT ALL. In fact, the flavor doesn't suggest it, and having only one night kill doesn't suggest it. What we've seen so far doesn't suggest it. Claiming that we don't know how many Mafia there are...is a scummy way to make us want to examine everyone with a fine tooth comb, it makes it easier for the Mafia to hide because all you have to do is over exaggerate any moves a person might make and say it's a definite scumtell.

While I don't trust a survivor enough to let them survive, I find letting them survive is preferable to letting someone I fully believe is Mafia to avoid being lynched. Vote stands.

@Red_Baron What is your name?

Hence pointing out a fundamental issue is not knowing how many mafia we have in my original post on this topic. You are not the first to suggest the possibilty of an unknown number of mafia.

Ummmmm, I'm not suggesting anything, I don't think there's more then one Mafia. There's nothing in the flavor to suggest it, and we have no proof via NK. It's not a fundamental issue, it's unprovable at this point in time. There was no reason to say 'We don't know how many Mafia there are. Granted, I probably misinterpreted what you meant when you said that though.

The number of mafia? Most likely 3, but again, that doesn't seem to matter right now. I still do not believe you are town, I fully expect that when you are lynched you will be identified as Mafia.

I doubt his claim, yes. I am not sure what to do, so I am questioning it and trying to learn something.

/barn
WTF? Suggesting there is multiple mafia? Pffff.
Vote muttly. I'd like your claim.