erm, many apologies Joe, I don't seem to remember the question, could you repeat it please?

And the reason it takes so long between posts, oh moderator, is because we have a post or two to read before we can do it, eh Red_Baron...?!,,;o)

I have to agree with this; when people like Red_Baron post an 11 page essay, that's a lot of information to try and consume before being able to respond accordingly.

muttly13 and Red_Baron are top of my list at the moment - their extensive accusations against each other are causing more than a little confusion - one of them if likely mafia, so I'll toss a coin and vote muttly13. If he turns out to be town, then the next suspect is definitely Red_baron. However, if muttly13 is mafia, then I'd hazard a guess at Robbeasy being his scum buddy.

That should of course be vote muttly13.

Yea sorry about that, I'll keep quiate for a bit :) And use it as reference.

And also I agree with you nmillar. I will even vote for myself if muttly13 is not mafia. But okay, he could just be a very very mislead town, though I wouldn't really understand how he could be.

I mean, I cant possibly be reasonably expected to answer this... Frankly, I am no longer concerned enough to do so. I can bring a horse to water and I can beat the hell out of it but I just cant make it drink. If someone has any particular things to ask I will contiinue to answer as I always have. Barring Barons of course, well even him if I can find the question.

Regarding TBs comments on lurkers, I totally disagree. This game has already had two drops making it that much more difficult and we have a few other folks who at best post every two days or so. I am not calling anyone to task for it "in game", simply stating it really makes doing much of anything unduly difficult.

Think either Red or Muttly could be mafia. But the thing that sticks out to me is Red's first post of the day.

Decided it sounds like mafia trying to appear town. So vote Red.

OK - glad someone has had the balls to take this approach. No idea where you got the idea I am Muttly's scum buddy from - i was the one who originally came up with the theory he engineered the whole voting scenario on Baron in the first place!

A coin toss seems a good way, but I'd rather go with whom I think is slightly less likely to be mafia.

unvote nmillar

Vote Muttly13

Votecount:

3 - Muttly13 (Robbeasy, Red_Baron, Nmillar)
2 - Red_Baron (Muttly, Pazzer)
1 - Stuart9001 (Itai.sharim)
1 - Robbeasy (Joesapphire)

Not voting: Twilightbard, Vitek, Stuart, Peanutbrittle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 8am GMT 26 January.

But that's the thing. What was gained out of the lynch of a lurker at this stage? We've learned nothing, the guy didn't claim, he really didn't defend himself, and because it was a lynch on policy I can't even use the lynchwagon to search for scum as someone who wasn't involved in the chaos of Day 1. It's probably the most pro-mafia lynch I've seen so far.

On the flip side, Lurkers are dangerous in the late game when they become good hiding spots for the Mafia as the game gets closer to LyLo. But this has to be dealt with as the time gets closer (and there are better ways of doing it)

As far as the game being harder because of the replacements...it's still early in the game to be quite honest.

As for saying that the lack of posts make things harder, a lot of people are watching the altercation between you and Red. Otherwise, make observations, build cases, everyone says something. There are ways of prodding the lurkers without jumping feet first into the policy lynching.

Vote Muttly13 Not the only person I'm concerned with when I started my thoughts on the Lynch All Lurkers idea, but you're post doesn't give me good feelings.

Well, my main suspect was muttly and re-reading changed nothing so far. I don't think there is much to add to his cause thanks to Red_Baron. :-)
I see he is now at L-2 with TB vote so I'd like him to claim as I am not far from voting him too.

I agree with a lot of Red_Baron's points but there are some things that I don't like in his cause too. One that cames to mind is his distancing from hammering of Crazy.

@Twilight; Have you finished your reading?

Wouldn't really call it distancing that I say I would have hammered him, same as others would. Most of my complain in that area is due to muttly13's wording making me sound like a hammere of town. And the other part is the confusion there was in regards of the votes, still always said I was the hammer.

Finished wading through the mafia equivalent of war and peace, here are my thoughts.

Muttly's case all stems from this comment by Red_Baron:

Red_Baron then immediately placed his vote back on me without waiting or analysing the lynch (nothing to be gained, info-wise) or the night kill. On the surface it seems a bit of a weak case, but it was only presented a case to try and get Red_Barons comments. The surprise aspect seems to be the (over?) reaction to it. Neither side would have seemed in any way scummy from Muttly asking for a explanation from Red_Baron but the explanation was presented somewhat explosively, and the whole thing escalated from there, with neither side being willing to back down.

The thing that keeps on pulling me back though is a comment by Red_Baron that I have already questioned once, and received a reply but on re-reading it, the reply doesn't make much sense.

Here is the statement that I questioned.

The contradiction was posited by Muttly here

The contradiction, as I understand it is that Red_Baron has not waited for "new information" from the night kill or the lynch (it says D2 here, I am assuming he meant D1) before returning his vote to me.
Try as I might I can not think of any leap of logic that could take a comment from after the night kill and make it into a suggestion that Muttly had or has knowledege of the night kill "not taking place" when there is a dead body there to show that it has. This one statement has all my alarm bells ringing and the more I think about it the louder they get, as it seems to imply that Red_Baron knows something about the night kill, and that implies to me that Red_Baron is scum. The explanation for this comment does not make any sense, as like the original statement it is framed in such a way as to rely on Muttly having to have posted his accusation of contradiction before the night kill took place.

I am aware that Red_Baron wrongly attributed one of my posts, which forms a part of this explanation, to Muttly.

It seems that it is time to take sides on this issue so for the reason above.
Vote Red_Baron

Is that a horrible horrible slip of the word there?

and, for you Rob, my question again:
"
Rob's "If I were scum it would be exactly the sort of play I would be making." causes me discomfort... I dunno it seems a BIT ridiculous a scheme.
Can you tell me similiar sort of things you attempted to make when you were mafia in game #7? Or any other time you've been mafia Rob? Is that an unfair question?
"

it's referring to your post number 437.

THIS sort of 'everybody pick a side' game I have never seen before in a forum mafia and it looks to be quite interesting. It seems like we're intent on the lynch of either muttly or redbaron and I suppose it isn't without fair reason.
It's funny because I was thinking that if the Baron is mafia then it would look like Rob was mafia as well.
Rob's looking kinda evil without the help of either of them I think but...

I had better pick a side?
and I would pick the RedBaron, because of the way he talks to Pazzer and myself, complimentary like, when he was saying he was pleased that we were obviously reading his posts.
It makes me uncomfortable because in my first game the only player who ever said that I was leaning town turned out to be mafia in the end. How sad for me.
If they're both town... well we can try to be forgiving I suppose...

Rob! don't distract yourself I'm awaiting your response.

unvote robbeasy, vote red baron

I had a longer post about my own thoughts on the Muttly/Baron debate, but it's mostly obsolete now that people have started picking sides. I'm leaning towards the Baron as scum mostly due to the same reasons as Joe and Stuart, but I think I'll stick to a neutral position for now.

But I will drop in to say that both players are at L-2 now (we'll say L-1.5 for the Baron because I'm pretty keen to vote him over Muttly for aforementioned reasons). I'm still not entirely sure what claiming is after reading the wiki, but I think both players should be sweating now.

What I want to see is both players start giving an explanations of why they aren't scum, instead of why their target is. Hammering away at each others arguments haven't made either of you look good in my eyes; in your rush to lynch the opposite suspect you've each indirectly undermined yourselves with contradictions and scummy behaviour, so I want to see some reasoning why you shouldn't be lynched for it.