I'll start by describing the scene as I remember it:
The characters are Zchinque, Mount Sharim and NMillar.

Zchinque asked NMillar for his opinion on mt. Sharim. Sharim asked 'why himself and why Nmillar?' Zchinque said they'd both played in the same game before. NMillar hadn't answered yet so AGAIN Zchinque asked the question. NMillar answered to the effect of "I don't think much about him" and Zchinque responded with those three immortal words 'V--e N Millar.'

That's how I remember it, the events leading up to your vote, Zchinque. I say leading up to because that is how it appeared, and, because you affixed no meaning to the vote yourself, I believe it to be a fair assumption.
So why did you vote in this manner as though you were the chief detective-inspector who had finally cornered his man?
AS though the vote required no explaination?

Joe, I like your style. A question might be why the style, but I like it nonetheless.

How you perceive the manner of the vote - chief detective-inspector and all - falls squarely on yourself, but I don¨t think that's what you're getting at here.
First - why the vote in the first place? Nmillar's play at that point, and all the way up to yesterday really, was one of disinterest and, frankly, non-participation. This is a complete counter to my perception of "standard nmillar play". I asked him some questions about itai in hope that he would participate, not only by answering said questions, but hopefully fill in his posts with something more. At least I expected some light conversation, as it was a harmless question. All he had to come with was essentially a shrug of the shoulders and a "dunno".

And why the lack of explanation? Well, did it need an explanation? I didn't expect or want a bandwagon to form on that basis. And again it was intended to get nmillar out of his shell. I, at least, find it much harder to let an unexplained vote slide, than one with some sort of justification.

@Vitek: I think we might be two peas in a pod here. Again.

Well, he basically fell with the steam gift pile thing - But yea, its all over now and should help be get back to speed.. Just spend a good deal of time re-reading and catching up with the rapidly escalating game, which is nice to see. And I am feeling fairly scattered in my line of thoughts, since just when I begin to picture one as a scum I see others who fall into the same category. And the whole Zchinque discussion is also a major hassle, since I like what he is trying to archive, but I truly dislike that he is putting himself up to be a sub mod or similar, giving direct commands or strict guidelines. Of course this can also be seen as an attempt to help, but if he does manage to achieve the situation where he is considered a guide, that will be very bad for the game. This situation might be a complete wrong read of the situation, but he has clearly showed himself to be more than just a participant, giving active advice / close to orders to the mod. Now thats something he should do by pm and keep out of the thread. Its not related to the game, it doesn't help us catch scum and it puts a lot of irrelevant post into the game. Which by the way is one of the things he makes a point of saying is bad play. Now why the heck is he doing it himself? My assumption would be that its due to the mafia games being kinda his child here on GOG, but it should not be a part of this thread. Orders to prod players and how the mod should act - do it by PM. Same goes for other comments about bastard mod with deadline and similar, we claimed ourself that we was going to be active doing the holiday, did we keep it.. no. So its fair and square that he did what he did, and when time came to exchange a player he also did indeed extend the deadline. No more about that subject - Just a note: I am basing absolutely no town/not town judgment on those parts of Zchinque's post, as in my opinion they have no say in the matter. (A side note: It appears to have been toned down a good deal in his latest posts, of which I am grateful).

Now on with the game:

Well, I been searching the thread several times now and I am sure I saw a post where stuart asked something in regards of me (a recent post), but I can't seem to find it.. So most likely I have mixed it together with the above quote and it never existed. However both what nmillar have stated and that post I have in the back of my head, is reasons as to why my vote is staying on Stuart. I do find it suspect the way he keeps going on about those who vote for him, while at the same time talking about how others can be of note as suspects.

In regards of Vitek's read, well I am not lurking anymore, though I wouldn't say I was completely of grid either, but I am also wondering what it could be in meta that gave Vitek a clue, but heck I can't really judge anything about his alignment from it either. And thats another reason as to why my vote stays. The last several post after Christmas has been very hard to judge, at least thats how I feel it. With comments and discussions about Zchinque, how he could fit together with vitek, how he could not, how others could be targeted or not targeted by him, it seems like a rather large cluster mess. And that brings me back to 9, where rodzaju was lynched for making a mess of the posts, of course due to other reasons - but I feel a similar situation here, however this time the mess is not due to strange claims, but instead due to involvement in the mod and too many attempts at controlling playstyles/however to say it. And yea, the easy way here would be to lynch Zchinque, but that is also a wrong action, as I can't justify to lynch someone who I so far have a read on as one genuinely trying to help and even more I can't lynch him for something that should be part of judgment. I find muttly13 scummy, but for some reason I find him scummy no matter where I see a post of his, even if its not a mafia game, dunno why though. But it does put him somewhat closer on my list of suspects.
nmillar had a period where he wasn't himself, but since he appears to be returning to normal I am guessing it was also due to the steam similar as I. While saying this, is it now I should point out that Zchinque whom stated that meta shouldn't be used as judgment, did the very same thing in regards of nmillar if memory serves me right? Just as I did? Well no matter, one can't avoid considering meta when playing with the same persons.

JoeSapphire..I have some kind of idea that his play so far shows some learning in progress, but what he is learning as, I have not yet made up my mind about.

PenutBrittle is also somewhat high on my suspect list, mainly due to the short posts stating nothing new.

itai.sharim: Called me out for a read/comment, similar as muttly, Not sure what to make of his, though I have a theory that he is trying to appear innocent by asking others out and show an appearance of inquiry (if that makes any sense). But its only a wild goose of an idea at the moment, with nothing really to support it, so I am ignoring it for now.

Nothing on pazzer, as he has just made a replacement, and can't judge the posts together.

Did I miss any?

Oh wait, Oorry - honestly I don't know.. currently I can only recall that single posts of his where he votes for Zchinque - so yea no read so far quite clearly..

Final note: This post became much longer than intended and ended up in a completely different direction than I initial thought it would, so if I repeat myself, or I sometimes jump a track of thought, then that might very well be the reason. And as always, hope that I managed to speak my mind gently.. as no offense was and is intended.

I think I have been insulted!! Maybe... cant tell for sure.

@stuart

As already stated, I thought the deadline was upon us, and felt the need to at least get a vote out there. Zchinque seemed the best choice at that time. Since then the deadline has been extended, therefore the retraction. I dont believe zchinque has been pushing a lurker lynch, i think he just commented on it being a choice with such a short deadline.

And, for the record, I am not against lurker voting in general - usually there is at least one mafia in every game that takes a back seat. What I am objecting to is the VERY dangerous assumption from a few players of peoples 'lurking' when its clearly been a festive time and a lot of people have not had time or inclination to do any posting!


@Muttly

Theres one big reason why you say I haven't really said anything of substance before the xmas break - its because IMHO no-one did! Am I being a bit stupid here, because to me it seemd we moved from RVS pretty much straight into the xmas break (with perhaps only a couple of days non RVS posting from 19th - 22nd Dec) - there was no time to really formulate any reads on people, never mind come up with any good theories. Then xmas kicked in, and everyone disappeared.

I find it very suspicious you have singled me out this way, when the same could apply to any number of players. You still insist on the 'lurking' theory and accuse me of non-posting.
I really think you are being unreasonable about this lurking angle, to the point of scumminess.

vote Muttly13

Finally found some time so here are my thoughts:

Nmillar – Not much to go on. Though did point out the amount of time left. Which I see as an attempt to get people discussing. Instead of everyone jumping on a random bandwagon due to deadline.

Joe – Said random voting stage is a very stressful time. Which strikes me as odd as I think it's the most relaxed part of the game. Only reason I can think it would be stressful is if you're trying to avoid fingering your mafia buddies.

Referred to Muttly as muttscum and seemed eager to lynch him. Though later on seemed happy to accept Muttly's argument against Robbeasy.

Muttly – In p148 thinks quite a few people are lurking. So makes sense he'd want to lynch one of them.

Orryyrro – Wants to lynch Zchinque based on his playstyle.

Itai.sharim – Seems eager for people to post and for the game to keep moving.

Crazybear - Nervous about being lynched. Which seems like a typical newbie reaction. Says when he votes it will have meaning.

Vitek - Quickly followed Zchinque's vote on Nmillar with his own. Without giving a reason. Seems keen to get reactions from people.

Red Baron – Was keen to pick a side in the Crazybear/Stuart argument.

Peanut Brittle – Also keen to pick a side in the Crazybear/Stuart argument.

Zchinque - Is very helpful with all his advice. Keen to keep the game moving. Appears to have a plan. Curious as to why he posted princess bride clip.

Stuart – Have to laugh at him thinking Crazybear's post was a coded message. Seems the sort of thing a newbie would do.

@Muttly Have any of your reads changed?

@Orryyrro do you believe Nmillar should be lynched because of his playstyle?

@Vitek what's your opinion of Zchinque?

@Stuart why do you think Zchinque is active lurking?

Just for the sake of correction: The picking sides thing was a joke reference to what was written in another post, when I mentioned sides. It really shouldn't be considered to take sides, since I was mostly expressing my thoughts of the, at that time, only interesting discussion, and voted as a result.

@red baron: The post in question is post #290 where I asked Vitek a question, I find it quite interesting that you think I only go after those who vote for me, I believe that is the first time I have actually mentioned you, I don't have time to go over my posts an check right now.
A large number of my recent post are about trying to understand the sudden about face by a lot of other players on their attitude to Zchinque, I don't believe he has ever voted for me, again no time to check.
I also am surprised that you find me trying to gather information as suspect.

@Zchinque: I did not claim that you called for a "lurk lynch" merely that you are certainly complicit in it in the way that you called for everyone to vote, the movement towards it fell out of this in my opinion. You can clearly see the word "complicit" in the quote. Perhaps I should have said "instrumental"?

As for whether you are a lurker, I'll repeat my opinion again 3 posts in 12 days = 1 post per 4 days = 1 post per 96 hours. Let me look at The rules described to us in time immemorial by Zchinque.... Rule 10. All players should try to post at least once every 48 hours.....
Who I think the active players are is irrelevant.
Thank you for finally explaining your vote for Nmillar. It has removed much of my scummy vibe on you.

@Vitek: Now I understand, thanks.

@Pazzer: I didn't actually think that, (no one seems to have got that bit), I was an excuse to have a prod at CrazyBear, It might have been done in a noob way though.

See my message to Zchinque to answer your question.

Singled out? I mentioned four people for whom I would vote, dedicated a post to it. I can only vote once. At the time you were the most silent and still hadnt posted any game related material. As for you and Nmillar voting for me... I am assuming there are enough people who agree that you both vanished for whatever reason that my vote doesnt appear scummy to them. I expect they think your votes are simply gut reactions and being upset I called you out. I also find it suspect that your indignity only applies to me while Z applies the same pressure to Nmillar for the exact same reasons with nary a slap on the wrist from you.

Frankly, this just makes me more solid in my belief that your vote (and Nmillars for that matter) is just a wounded reaction and nothing more. If I am wrong, well then I guess we will find out by how much.

That said I am content to unvote Robbeasy in an attempt to find someone by the deadline. Here are my thoughts on everyone... I know at least Pazzer is interested!!!! Woo Hoo!

01- Nmillar - See robb...
02- JoeSapphire - No good read.
03- Pazzer - Not much to go on yet.
04- Muttly13 - ***
05- Robbeasy - Assuming I am right that their votes on me are just hurt reactions instead of actual meaningful investigation, I dont get much of a read either way. After some thought, I no longer have the impression Nmillar has some other plot in mind.
06- Orryyrro - Still lurking for the most part. I would figure legit folks would find this somewhat dangerous at this point in the game, so leaning scum.
07- Itai.sharim - No good read as yet.
08- Crazybear - Same deal as Stuart, I think their argument is a distraction. Whether its just simply a waste of time or a more calculated waste is the question. I no longer lean town on these two, but I have nothing to state they are scum yet either.
09- Vitek - Waiting to see how he responds now that Nmillar is somewhat active.
10- Red Baron - No good read. I still dont really get the Stuart vote, but I imagine thats because I have written off that conflict for day 1 at the moment.
11- Peanut Brittle - Havent heard much lately, no good read.
12- Zchinque - Finally some confirmation on prodding Nmillar. I do find it somewhat questionable that you state a vote with no explanation is hard to take and was used as a prod in the same breathe as claiming it needed no explanation.
13- Stuart9001 - See CrazyBear.

Alright, since I've put it off long enough, I'll put up some new reads.

01- Nmillar - I'm of the opinion that lurking isn't really a viable reason alone for a lynch. I don't know much about Mafia yet being a new player, but it seems to me that since lynching is such an obvious suspicious sign that a savvy player would try to be as active as possible without tipping their hand. That's not really what nmillar has been doing. I'm not going so far to call nmillar town, but I don't see a strong case.
02- JoeSapphire - I like you, Joe. You seem nice and genuine, and you've got a nice way of posting. I'm leaning town.
03- Pazzer - Not much to go on for obvious reasons.
04- Muttly13 - Still doesn't really lean one way or another. He's not desperate to defend himself after only two votes, which is always a plus sign in my books.
05- Robbeasy - Not much of an opinion of the man himself, but see my thoughts on Nmillar.
06- Orryyrro - No read, very quiet still. If there's any lurker I'm suspicious of, I'd go with him.
07- Itai.sharim - Kind of perplexes me, but he's certainly willing to ask and receive questions. No further comment for now I suppose.
08- Crazybear - I think the two of them are both benign, and they just both don't realize it. Both are new players, correct? I think this is just a case of newbies getting caught up in debates (which I why I was caught up in it as well, for sure). I've still got my tiny little feeling about Crazybear, but I certainly don't think it's worth acting on. I would think scum would try to completely stay out of a prolonged debate.
09- Vitek - No real read one way or the other. I'd like to see a nice longer post on where he stands now in the game, because the short infrequent posts are going to push him up on the suspect list.
10- Red Baron - Seems very town to me for sheer volume of theorizing and discussion. Very open about his train of thought, which to me seems like a town thing to do.
11- Peanut Brittle - Very handsome.
12- Zchinque - Everyone knows my opinion at this point. Too much dancing around questions and prodding of other people, not enough actual active discussion. He's admittedly a weak suspect, but I'm sticking to it until something better comes along. I also don't get the "he's helping the game, so he shouldn't be lynched" argument.
13- Stuart9001 - Same boat as Crazybear.

Obviously my reads aren't really adding up. But at this point there really isn't much to go on, and everyone is a weak suspect. Very curious to see where the lynch is going to go.

This is so exciting. I'm loving this game.

I think if everybody lists his opinion on everyone it makes it easier for scum to pick targets.

@ Peanut; I don't make long posts often. I am usually able to sum my thoughts into few words.

@Zchinque; I don't know what does it mean but get out of my pod immediately!

Votecount:

3 - Nmillar (Vitek, Zchinque, JoeSapphire)
2 - Zchinque (Orry, Peanutbrittle)
2 - Stuart9001 (Crazybear, Red Baron)
2 - Muttly13 (Robbeasy, Nmillar)
1 - Crazybear (Stuart)
1 - Robbeasy (Itai.sharim)

Not voting: Muttly, Pazzer

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is 11pm GMT 6 January.

Then get to summarizing... I have a few questions for you. If your vote was originally to prod Nmillar, whats the reason behind keeping it on him? Do you have further information you would like to impart? Do you feel he is still simply lurking? Same questions go for Z but since I am fairly confident he wont reply, I will ask you first with the hopes you will.

I think I said it somewhere but I can't find it. I don't usually unvote much, unless I find muuuch better target, because I don't like my vote sitting idle. I don't have further informations (other than others have).