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General discussion (archive)Forum Mafia Game 10(1207 posts)(1207 posts)
(1207 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 23, 2011
As people are sharing their thoughts at the moment here are mine so far.

The only alarm bell right now is Vitek because of the lack of an answer as to why he is blindly following Zchinque. I'll wait for an answer which contains some proper reasoning before voting though.

I just think Zchinque is playing a game, I suppose it will come out eventually what he is up to, and I shall wait for that before reaching a conclusion.
I guess the Zchinque thing will carry on for a few days as there will be no prodding.

Simply because of the lurking, and lack of chances to find anything out, I'm finding Robeasy and nmillar a little suspicious. There are several lurkers but these seem to be the "lurkiest"
I am also suspicious of Joe as his infrequent post are very rambling and contain little to go on but lots of questions.

I think that CrazyBear is town, and, If pushed for an opionin am getting towny vibes from muttly13 and Itai.sharim.

Anyone else I haven't got any opionion about yet.
Posted December 23, 2011
The deadline's fine. Good to know we won't spend a month on the first day.

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Zchinque: Vote nmillar
I can't help but suspect that you've gone and left us again. Forgive me for speaking for everyone but you have us awaiting your next word. What is in your mind?
Posted December 23, 2011
The game seems to be on hold at the moment. Only a select few are posting something with substance. Probably due to the holidays.

Merry christmas everyone.
Posted December 23, 2011
I ask questions because we need to hear from everyone. I think a big problem in forum mafia is that once someone has everyone's attention it's hard for the attention to move elsewhere sometimes causing mislynches to come from very trivial things. On the first day I think it's really important to hear a good amount from everybody.
Nobody has but if somebody were to ask me something I would respond. I'm not asking questions to try and remove attention from myself.

And hey look since the moderator alerted me three days ago I've been posting once a day (twice today now). Can this help to dissolve the "lurker" title that has been ascribed to me? Or will yous need bribing?
Posted December 23, 2011
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JoeSapphire: Sharim - can't remember much. picky about Zchnique's oddities. could be mafia. This is a question that got thrown around in game 6 - Why SHOULD you be lynched?
Baron - difficult to read. could be town. Care to take a meaningless/completely contrived guess at who the first nightkill might be?
I find these two questions odd. Care to enlighten me on the thought process behind them?

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jefequeso: What's with the recent sudden switch to Nmillar, without any explanation? And I still read your mid-20s posts as being quite scummy.
Switch? That indicates going from something to something else. This was no switch, my good man.

Also, humour me, what did you find scummy about the posts you mention?

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Vitek: Lot of players is scummy right now but if I had to pick one it would be...itai.sharim I guess.
That said:
Unvote Stuart, vote nmillar
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Vitek: I support Zchinque.
*Raises eyebrow*

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itai.sharim: *snip*
Ah, thank you, now I can answer about why I inquired about nmillar's thoughts on you. It was not so much his answers I was interested in, as your reaction. At that point, you had posted quite a bit, relatively speaking, but all your posts lacked one thing - any content relating to the game. Frequent posting of non-content can often be a sign of scum active-lurking or trying to slip under the radar, so I considered it a viable lead to advance on, although in a somewhat roundabout way.
And to answer your question from #114, I have no reason whatsoever to trust nmillar's opinion more than any other player in the game.

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itai.sharim: I'll let it roll a bit to see where Zchinque takes us because I do think he is town.
Why?

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jefequeso: Almost all of Z's posts from the 20-30 range seem anti-town, or at least suspicious. He claims that he's identified at least 2 scum in the first 15 posts, then threaten Joe (post 17).
'Twas a reference to Vitek and Joe sharing inside information to who this "Liam" fellow might be. Typically, two people sharing inside information in a game of mafia - in particular on day 1 - is indication of them being mafia. Hence voting for Vitek and telling Joe he was going down tomorrow. Of course, it was a random vote, and all in jest.
That combined with post 25 seems like almost a power role claim.
How do you get a power claim from that?
It's then revealed in posts 44 and 45 that, in a previous game, he spent his time throwing the entire town into confusion, which seems to me to be one of the most anti-town things you could do.
Which has what bearing on this game, exactly?
So I don't trust him. Either he's scum, or he's a townie who is effectively anti-town. Does this mean that I'm going to push for a lynch? No. There's not enough evidence yet. But at this point, I think he's the most suspicious person.
If I am either scum or an anti-town townie - which seems a strange dichotomy, but let's roll with it - why are you not pushing for my lynch?

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stuart9001: He has thrown out a totally random and unexplained vote and everyone is now focused on this and reacting to it.
That something is unexplained doesn't make it random.

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stuart9001: *snipped by Zchinque*
He has thrown out a totally random and unexplained vote and everyone is now focused on this and reacting to it. I think it's a ploy and only makes me suspicious for one reason, and that is Vitek's vote.
*snipped by Zchinque*
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Vitek: What exactly is this ploy trying to achieve?
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stuart9001: You'll have to ask Zchinque that.
No, asking you that seems fair. If you think it's a ploy, I'm sure you have some ideas about what you think that ploy might be, or what intended effect it might have.
Also, why does only Vitek's vote make the alleged ploy suspicious?

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JoeSapphire: Is this nmillar thing something we should avoid asking about?
You may ask, but I might not answer. Indeed, you should always ask, perphaps unless you are clearly stated asked not to. Then you should ask (probably yourself) why you shouldn't ask, and if you can't find a good answer, ask anyway.

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JoeSapphire: So then what do you think to the suggestion that peanutbrittle, zchnique and orryyrro are our mafia team? It's just a baseless thought on my part.
Hmm....
((I hope Rod and any other observers we might have would be suitably impressed if I have just managed to name the scum. Of course if I have it's not going to be much help at this stage. I'm going into too much detail, keep it simple.))
Psst - saying that it's baseless makes it less impressive if correct.
here's a question for you Zchinique - Did you expect vitek to vote with you?
Effectively you're asking whether or not I admit that myself and Vitek can communicate outside of the thread?
No, I had no reason to expect Vitek to vote for nmillar. He had given no prior indication - at least not that I've picked up - that he had any suspicion in that direction.

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PenutBrittle: Zchinque - I don't like the secrecy, the weird behaviour, and the refusal to answer questions. Oddly enough, it almost makes me think he's town just because I can't imagine scum would ever try to act that suspicious. Of course, maybe that's his angle.
I thought I had posted this already....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0UURBihH8

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Orryyrro: If I'm not around much in the next bit, it's holiday related.
Don't worry, as your contribution so far can be summed up to "I don't have a town read on anyone", there's not much to miss.
Please post something.

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JoeSapphire: I can't help but suspect that you've gone and left us again. Forgive me for speaking for everyone but you have us awaiting your next word. What is in your mind?
Why would you be awaiting my word? I do not think you need my permission for, well, anything really.


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Rodzaju: Quick question:
Is anyone expecting to be out of contact for more than 5 of the next 12 days?
No.

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Rodzaju: OK.
Enough people have said that they will be around that Isee no need to extend the deadline.

Unless the day ends naturally beforehand, Night will fall 11pm GMT January 3.

Due to Cristmas & new year, I will not prod anyone for the remainder of the day.
I'd like to ask you to reconsider.
If you're going to keep a strict deadline over Christmas, I think you should prod accordingly. Mod-approved lurking is a very powerful tool for the mafia.
Even still I might consider and extention, as even if people post every 48 hours, which isn't necessarily that much, activity is bound to drop anywho.
Posted December 23, 2011
I agree with Joe in that Zchinque's tactic has stalled the game as everyone seems to waiting for some sort of resolution. I say ignore it and get on with exploring other avenues until he explains himself.

I also agree that you have picked up the pace a bit too, but a bribe would not be amiss ;)

Also: As we say in these parts Nadolig llawen pawb.
Posted December 23, 2011
@Zchinque - I had considered you as town because I thought you some info on nmillar or me. Such info, I think, indicates, more often than not, that the player is town aligned.
However, now that you had uncovered your reasons of asking the question, this no longer applies.
Posted December 23, 2011
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itai.sharim: @Zchinque - I had considered you as town because I thought you some info on nmillar or me. Such info, I think, indicates, more often than not, that the player is town aligned.
However, now that you had uncovered your reasons of asking the question, this no longer applies.
Where would this information have come from? What sort of role did you imagine I might have?
Remember, the scum are typically the only ones with information on others day1.

Also, if I had information on you, how would that reflect on the question I asked nmillar?
Posted December 23, 2011
The "why should you be lynched?" question was used in the sixth game. Someone started it to get the metaphoric ball rolling. I can't remember if it was really effective and it's hard to say what it achieved for later on in the game as it was ended prematurely. I'd got myself into the pattern of asking everyone different questions and I was struggling to thing of them at that point (I think that was quite near the top of the list - that doesn't contradict what I just said because I started asking questions half way through my list of reads and then went back to add questions to those who had none)
I describe the "guess the victim" question as a sort of extended RVS. basically just "name any player". Those with information on other players should have answers influenced by that. There's no way of knowing if or how the answer is influenced but I asked the question anyway.

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Zchinque: You may ask, but I might not answer. Indeed, you should always ask, perphaps unless you are clearly stated asked not to. Then you should ask (probably yourself) why you shouldn't ask, and if you can't find a good answer, ask anyway.
Well I asked whether or not I should ask because I thought "Has Zchinique noticed something in nmillar's behaviour that has given him away?" I thought perhaps you had noticed that in a past game nmillar had picked on somebody for doing something that Sharim had done here. When nmillar said "I don't have anything to say about him," you thought that the contradiction in character was enough reason to vote.
You've denied that the question had anything to do with Sharim's behaviour now which casts doubt on the likelyhood of the above situation.
Oh yes but with regard to not asking, I was thinking - if you DID have reason to vote you must have had reason to not give the reason, and so you must not want the reason to be publicised so perhaps speculating what the reason might be would be harmful behaviour.

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Zchinque: Psst - saying that it's baseless makes it less impressive if correct.
less impressive than if I had worked it out with deductive reasoning perhaps, but still the chance of picking the correct three is very very small so they should be somewhat impressed. I bid them be "suitably impressed" so the actual impressiveness of the event can be anything.

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Zchinque: Effectively you're asking whether or not I admit that myself and Vitek can communicate outside of the thread?
No, I had no reason to expect Vitek to vote for nmillar.
Well what I was thinking when I asked was, if there is actually a reason (such as the example above) for you voting nmillar that could be worked out by other players, then you may have expected others to vote with you (because they had worked it out).
Your reaction leads me to believe that your vote is meaningless, and the theatrical nature of its issue is just so you can read people's reactions, yes?
So what have you read?

Stuart9001 I can't understand Welsh, and I ALSO can't understand those last three words. I deduce, therefore, that they are word of Welsh and request they be translated.

The rest of you - I haven't forgotten you!
Posted December 23, 2011
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Zchinque: Where would this information have come from? What sort of role did you imagine I might have?
Remember, the scum are typically the only ones with information on others day1.

Also, if I had information on you, how would that reflect on the question I asked nmillar?
I imagined your PM included flavor about me or nmillar and maybe some others.I thought you were actually interested in nmillar's answer and wanted to cross reference it with your flavor. This is why it seemed weird you directed the question specifically to him.

I agree that scum are typically the ones with information on day 1 but as I stated in post #149, I think this is an extremely dangerous move for mafia so early in the game - so I ruled it out.
Posted December 23, 2011
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Zchinque: Don't worry, as your contribution so far can be summed up to "I don't have a town read on anyone", there's not much to miss.
Please post something.
Well, I think we're in the transitional phase still between RVS and normal play. There isn't really anything to go on, but there is more than enough that it isn't RVS.

Really, the only thing to do is keep questioning people until they do something scummy and then question them without letting up until satisfied one way or the other. However at this point nobody has really done anything noticeably overtly scummy to me, and as you said active lurking doesn't really help much either, in conjunction with the holidays, i don't have all that much to say right now.
Posted December 23, 2011
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JoeSapphire: Stuart9001 I can't understand Welsh, and I ALSO can't understand those last three words. I deduce, therefore, that they are word of Welsh and request they be translated.
Google translate does a good job (Unusually enough...)
Posted December 23, 2011
Well, apparently I missed some sort of joke. I'm still highly suspicious of Zchinque, though. You ask what I find scummy about your posts? It's just the overall tone of them. Very brash and almost taunting. Perhaps scummy isn't the right word. But there's something about them that very much rubs me the wrong way. I'm not pushing for a lynch because lynching you for just getting a "feeling" about your posts isn't really a good idea. It's the best I had to go on at that point.

However, since I seem to be the only one who's getting these vibes, and we seem to be effectively out of RVS...

unvote


I've read back a little ways, but at the moment I'm not quite sure about my reads (I'm having trouble thinking straight today, as well). I'll post my thoughts soon, once I've gotten them cleared up a little bit.
Posted December 23, 2011
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muttly13: Lurking has become to standard practice on this thread, are we assuming this is all holiday related? If not, I would say a good number of folks need to chat it up a bit.
We are still better than Game 9. Everyone there should be considered lurker right now. :-)

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JoeSapphire: I ask questions because we need to hear from everyone. I think a big problem in forum mafia is that once someone has everyone's attention it's hard for the attention to move elsewhere sometimes causing mislynches to come from very trivial things. On the first day I think it's really important to hear a good amount from everybody.
I think there are 2 different situations. When there is serious case on someone it might be distracting to come with and focus on another things but like when any case is not serious enough people shouldn't wait for response of one player to move on.
I don't know why his vote should stall game. No one force people to not do anything else and only wait for his posts.

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stuart9001: The only alarm bell right now is Vitek because of the lack of an answer as to why he is blindly following Zchinque. I'll wait for an answer which contains some proper reasoning before voting though.

I just think Zchinque is playing a game, I suppose it will come out eventually what he is up to, and I shall wait for that before reaching a conclusion.
I guess the Zchinque thing will carry on for a few days as there will be no prodding.
So it's OK Zchinque votes nmillar but not me?
And I am not blindly following him, I know what I am doing. And I have my reasons to vote him.


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JoeSapphire: The "why should you be lynched?" question was used in the sixth game. Someone started it to get the metaphoric ball rolling. I can't remember if it was really effective and it's hard to say what it achieved for later on in the game as it was ended prematurely. I'd got myself into the pattern of asking everyone different questions and I was struggling to thing of them at that point (I think that was quite near the top of the list - that doesn't contradict what I just said because I started asking questions half way through my list of reads and then went back to add questions to those who had none)
It wasn't useful in Game 6. It only made us suspect Thiev when she was town. Although, I admit it doesn't mean it can't be useful somehow. I was it proponent there after all. Although I have strange feeling about NK question. It is a lot different than the former one.

More maybe coming later, I had tiresome day.
Posted December 23, 2011
@everyone who needs a translation: Nadolig = Christmas; llawen = happy; pawb = everyone


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Zchinque: *snip*
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stuart9001: He has thrown out a totally random and unexplained vote and everyone is now focused on this and reacting to it.
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Zchinque: That something is unexplained doesn't make it random.

Also that something is unexplained does not necessarily make it non-random, are we trying to find scum or discussing semantics?
It was unexplained in that you provided no explanation and it seemed to be purely random in that you provided no explanation.

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Vitek: What exactly is this ploy trying to achieve?
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Zchinque: What it has achieved I would surmise. You could maybe read post #159 rather than just quoting it. I thought it would be pretty self explanatory what I thought your ploy was

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stuart9001: You'll have to ask Zchinque that.
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Zchinque: No, asking you that seems fair. If you think it's a ploy, I'm sure you have some ideas about what you think that ploy might be, or what intended effect it might have.
Also, why does only Vitek's vote make the alleged ploy suspicious?
I don't see anything I have posted that suggests I considered Vitek's question unfair. Choosing not to post conjecture does not make his question "unfair" or my answer "unfair", not any more so than not answering anybody's questions, as I seem to remember you doing, for the last 3 days. Might I direct you post #172.

Apologies if the quotes have gone wrong. I've not got the hang of this quote system.

@ Vitek: Just noticed your post. I don't think Zchinque's actions can be viewed as anything but anti-town now that I have seen his eagerly anticipated response, I now find him as suspicious as yourself. This is because you have not provided your reasons for voting the same way other than "supporting" him. Looks a little like "blind" following to me.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Forum Mafia Game 10(1207 posts)(1207 posts)
(1207 posts)