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+rep to LiquidOxygen80 and Mrstarker for properly clarifying how everything happened with this situation. Bonus points for all the linked sources.
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Mrstarker: -Good summary of events-
Much thanks. That keeps things nice and clear without actually bringing much dramatics to the table.
I have never heard of Beer before, don't give a shit about Fez and I don't follow Fish's temper tantrums, so I don't particularly care about this incident.

That being said, there's not a lot of things I hate more, than people who are assholes, insult people left and right and make bad jokes, but who are incredibly sulky and insulted as soon as someone mocks them.

I had to deal with people like this, and it's just one of the most pathetic things ever. If you dish it out, you should be able to take it.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by Fesin
Based on the links that Mrstarker has given there, I'd be tempted to side with BlowFish, even if Fish was typically abrasive as he usually is.

I'd never heard of Marcus Beer before, but watching a few videos of his, he seems like a bit of an unpleasant and self-obsessed twat. BlowFish's general point that anyone with some kind of public profile has good reason to not comment publicly on rumours is a valid one, and asking anyone to comment on unconfirmed rumours is generally bad form.
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LiquidOxygen80: 2. Phil Fish and Jonathan Blow, both being leading figures in the indie gaming community, seemed like a natural fit for members of the media to contact to ask their opinions on how they thought this could effect them. Specifically, Game Informer. Fish and Blow reportedly responded with insults and threats towards this particular journalist for daring to ask them about this, essentially flying off the handle over nothing, in my opinion.
Really? I don't see how anyone could seriously consider the comments made as being insulting and threatening. Some gaming journalism does suck and devs should be entitled to call poor journalistic practice out. I thought that the tweet from Blow at least is a perfect example of this..
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LiquidOxygen80: 2. Phil Fish and Jonathan Blow, both being leading figures in the indie gaming community, seemed like a natural fit for members of the media to contact to ask their opinions on how they thought this could effect them. Specifically, Game Informer. Fish and Blow reportedly responded with insults and threats towards this particular journalist for daring to ask them about this, essentially flying off the handle over nothing, in my opinion.
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htown1980: Really? I don't see how anyone could seriously consider the comments made as being insulting and threatening. Some gaming journalism does suck and devs should be entitled to call poor journalistic practice out. I thought that the tweet from Blow at least is a perfect example of this..
How is that poor journalism, though? Journalists aren't allowed to ask people from within the industry about their thoughts on the story all of a sudden? They're not allowed to put out feelers on what could turn out to be a good lead? They have to be attacked for this, now?
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htown1980: Really? I don't see how anyone could seriously consider the comments made as being insulting and threatening. Some gaming journalism does suck and devs should be entitled to call poor journalistic practice out. I thought that the tweet from Blow at least is a perfect example of this..
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Cormoran: How is that poor journalism, though? Journalists aren't allowed to ask people from within the industry about their thoughts on the story all of a sudden? They're not allowed to put out feelers on what could turn out to be a good lead? They have to be attacked for this, now?
Asking for thoughts on a rumor is pretty disrespectful. And only a developer that's desperate for airtime is going to have the time to answer them. Most developers have better things to do with their time than answer questions about rumors.

Also, journalists typically create and maintain contacts when they want this sort of information, it's rather poor taste to just try and hit a celebrity up for their opinion on gossip. (Obviously celebrity may or may not be accurate in this case depending upon your opinion)

Bottom line is that ultimately, cold calling a stranger for an opinion on a rumor isn't something which is particularly respectful of their time. And certainly not something that any journalist is entitled to.

I'm rather inclined to side with Blow and Fish as it doesn't sound like they've done anything particularly egregious here. Whereas Mr. Beer seems to be full of himself in demanding that they answer somebody elses questions as if gaming "journalists" are entitled to answers.
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Cormoran: How is that poor journalism, though? Journalists aren't allowed to ask people from within the industry about their thoughts on the story all of a sudden? They're not allowed to put out feelers on what could turn out to be a good lead? They have to be attacked for this, now?
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hedwards: Asking for thoughts on a rumor is pretty disrespectful. And only a developer that's desperate for airtime is going to have the time to answer them. Most developers have better things to do with their time than answer questions about rumors.

Also, journalists typically create and maintain contacts when they want this sort of information, it's rather poor taste to just try and hit a celebrity up for their opinion on gossip. (Obviously celebrity may or may not be accurate in this case depending upon your opinion)

Bottom line is that ultimately, cold calling a stranger for an opinion on a rumor isn't something which is particularly respectful of their time. And certainly not something that any journalist is entitled to.

I'm rather inclined to side with Blow and Fish as it doesn't sound like they've done anything particularly egregious here. Whereas Mr. Beer seems to be full of himself in demanding that they answer somebody elses questions as if gaming "journalists" are entitled to answers.
I guess we just have completely different definitions of respect, I don't find that disrespectful in the least, actually I find it quite the opposite.
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hedwards: Asking for thoughts on a rumor is pretty disrespectful.
No it's not. Journalists ask interviewees to comment on speculation all the time. I see nothing disrespectful about it all.

"If this were to be true, what would you think about it?"

A perfectly innocuous question.
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hedwards: I'm rather inclined to side with Blow and Fish as it doesn't sound like they've done anything particularly egregious here. Whereas Mr. Beer seems to be full of himself in demanding that they answer somebody elses questions as if gaming "journalists" are entitled to answers.
Game journalists are used to doling out snark, not receiving it. Asking them to wait until a rumor has actually been confirmed is tantamount to a most grievous insult and a vicious attack on the profession as a whole.
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htown1980: Really? I don't see how anyone could seriously consider the comments made as being insulting and threatening. Some gaming journalism does suck and devs should be entitled to call poor journalistic practice out. I thought that the tweet from Blow at least is a perfect example of this..
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Cormoran: How is that poor journalism, though? Journalists aren't allowed to ask people from within the industry about their thoughts on the story all of a sudden? They're not allowed to put out feelers on what could turn out to be a good lead? They have to be attacked for this, now?
I wouldn't say its disrespectful but if I a journo asked me questions based on rumours rather than facts or research, I would blow them off too (pun intended). "Do some research, its your job, don't just take every rumour that you hear as the truth and bug people, who have actual work to do, for their views about it." And don't get annoyed when people tell you to get lost.

I have probably had half a dozen calls from journos over my career asking for comments on stuff that I might have some involvement in. I find it annoying, especially when they won't take no for an answer. I can appreciate that it would be more annoying if it happens more regularly, and I suspect it would to Blow and Fish.

Also, maybe I am biased. Journalism here is generally pretty poor. I know in the US its not great either, a classic example being the naming of the crew of that plane that crashed recently, including such pilots as "Sum Ting Wong".
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Cormoran: I guess we just have completely different definitions of respect, I don't find that disrespectful in the least, actually I find it quite the opposite.
So, wasting other people's time with bullshit isn't disrespectful? That's a strange way of looking at things.
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hedwards: Asking for thoughts on a rumor is pretty disrespectful.
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scampywiak: No it's not. Journalists ask interviewees to comment on speculation all the time. I see nothing disrespectful about it all.

"If this were to be true, what would you think about it?"

A perfectly innocuous question.
After they've agreed to the interview and usually they're given the chance to plug their project. It's a simple quid pro quo that's not happening here.
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hedwards: I'm rather inclined to side with Blow and Fish as it doesn't sound like they've done anything particularly egregious here. Whereas Mr. Beer seems to be full of himself in demanding that they answer somebody elses questions as if gaming "journalists" are entitled to answers.
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Mrstarker: Game journalists are used to doling out snark, not receiving it. Asking them to wait until a rumor has actually been confirmed is tantamount to a most grievous insult and a vicious attack on the profession as a whole.
Pretty much.
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Cormoran: How is that poor journalism, though? Journalists aren't allowed to ask people from within the industry about their thoughts on the story all of a sudden? They're not allowed to put out feelers on what could turn out to be a good lead? They have to be attacked for this, now?
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htown1980: I wouldn't say its disrespectful but if I a journo asked me questions based on rumours rather than facts or research, I would blow them off too (pun intended). "Do some research, its your job, don't just take every rumour that you hear as the truth and bug people, who have actual work to do, for their views about it." And don't get annoyed when people tell you to get lost.

I have probably had half a dozen calls from journos over my career asking for comments on stuff that I might have some involvement in. I find it annoying, especially when they won't take no for an answer. I can appreciate that it would be more annoying if it happens more regularly, and I suspect it would to Blow and Fish.

Also, maybe I am biased. Journalism here is generally pretty poor. I know in the US its not great either, a classic example being the naming of the crew of that plane that crashed recently, including such pilots as "Sum Ting Wong".
I'd like to point out that the NTSB did technically verify those names as being real. So, it wasn't entirely the journalists fault, they did verify it, they just didn't have any clue what a reasonable Korean name would be.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by hedwards
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hedwards: I'd like to point out that the NTSB did technically verify those names as being real. So, it wasn't entirely the journalists fault, they did verify it, they just didn't have any clue what a reasonable Korean name would be.
Well, I thought a kid doing a summer internship verified them but to me, that doesn't excuse it. Anyone just needs to look at those names to know that they are obviously a joke.

Sum Ting Wong
Wi Tu Lo
Ho Lee Fuk
Bang Ding Ow

It demonstrates a lack of critical thinking. Journalists especially shouldn't just believe and regurgitate everything they are told, they should critically assess that information before passing it on. That clearly didn't happen in the case of the Asiana report and it could be argued that it wasn't happening when Fish and Blow were asked about unsubstantiated rumours.
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Cormoran: I guess we just have completely different definitions of respect, I don't find that disrespectful in the least, actually I find it quite the opposite.
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hedwards: So, wasting other people's time with bullshit isn't disrespectful? That's a strange way of looking at things.
How was it wasting their time? Fish and Blow had plenty of time to spare, they certainly had enough time to go and complain about it on twitter. If they didn't want their time wasted they could have, and here's a mind blowing idea, simply ignored the emails.

The journalists asked for their comments because they respected their position within the indie community enough to reach out to them. They didn't even require an answer from them, they also didn't deserve to be ridiculed by them just for doing their jobs.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by Cormoran
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hedwards: I'd like to point out that the NTSB did technically verify those names as being real. So, it wasn't entirely the journalists fault, they did verify it, they just didn't have any clue what a reasonable Korean name would be.
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htown1980: Well, I thought a kid doing a summer internship verified them but to me, that doesn't excuse it. Anyone just needs to look at those names to know that they are obviously a joke.

Sum Ting Wong
Wi Tu Lo
Ho Lee Fuk
Bang Ding Ow

It demonstrates a lack of critical thinking. Journalists especially shouldn't just believe and regurgitate everything they are told, they should critically assess that information before passing it on. That clearly didn't happen in the case of the Asiana report and it could be argued that it wasn't happening when Fish and Blow were asked about unsubstantiated rumours.
Except it wasn't unsubstantiated, and one of the journos in particular said:

It all depends on what you call official. We broke the story after we had multiple sources confirm the facts. We didn't run a rumor. We ran fact.

Just because Microsoft didn't want to comment on it when we asked doesn't make our reporting any less valid.

So, you can take that as you will.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by LiquidOxygen80