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General discussion (archive)Fallout: New Vegas -- The Bad News(336 posts)(336 posts)
(336 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 09, 2010
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bowlingotter: It's a legitimate argument and a perfectly reasonable point of view. But until the digital sales are included with overall software sales when they are posted, it's hard to make the argument of how much impact that piracy has actually had, and whether or not DRM has made a difference. I choose to believe that DRM makes a significant difference, but I'll just have to wait for when digital sales are tracked equally to see if the numbers support that.

Well, that's not going to occur anytime soon, since Valve doesn't release any numbers of their sales. Which sucks. It would be interesting to see if steam-only games are really making bigger sales than retail and other digital services sales too.
Posted June 09, 2010
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mogamer: After playing Alpha Protocol, the real bad news about Fallout: New Vegas is that Obsidian is the developer. What is the excuse for AP problems? And what will the excuse be after Fallout: New Vegas gets released?

I'm having a fantastic time playing Alpha Protocol this week. I'm already planning my second play-through when I can't be at my computer.
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mogamer: As far as Steamworks is concerned, buy the game and then download the cracked version.

Yes, buying the game: That'll show 'em.
Post edited June 09, 2010 by Syme
Posted June 09, 2010
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bowlingotter: It's a legitimate argument and a perfectly reasonable point of view. But until the digital sales are included with overall software sales when they are posted, it's hard to make the argument of how much impact that piracy has actually had, and whether or not DRM has made a difference. I choose to believe that DRM makes a significant difference, but I'll just have to wait for when digital sales are tracked equally to see if the numbers support that.
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chautemoc: Yeah. Well, I'm basing each of those examples on decisions, interviews, comments and results from employees at those companies. Stardock is always happy with its PC sales, encourages the modding community, builds PC exclusives, etc. BioWare has said Dragon Age "makes a very good case for the single player PC RPG which seem to have waned in recent years" (and both that and Mass Effect series are great and optimized on PC), Blizzard needs no explanation, and DICE has always had great sucess with Battlefield on PC. Bad Company 2 in my opinion is a great PC version and last I checked outsold console versions (versus either platform, not combined).
Unfortunately I don't think we'll be seeing digital figures for a long time.

Well, Bioware did go from making Baldur's Gate and NWN to Mass Effect which is mostly an action-based fps with RPG elements.
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Delixe: Fallout: NV is going to live or die depending on how true this claim is:
"For those concerned, this will have no affect on mod development whatsoever. Modders will still be able to create and distribute their plugins the same way they have in the past."
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Navagon: Agreed. But Valve games have tons of mods. So does Fallout 3. So I'm not seeing any cause for concern on that count. The main concern for me is if the base game is going to be stable and complete enough for mods to really have enough to work with.

HL2 mods and FO3 mods are very different. This is going to be a first for any Fallout game modding team having their tools remotely verfiy.
Post edited June 09, 2010 by drmlessgames
Posted June 09, 2010
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Syme:
Jason Bergman, Senior Producer at Bethesda Softworks: Yes. Fallout: New Vegas will fully utilize the Steamworks SDK. This means that retail PC copies will activate via Steam.

That sucks :-(
One of the good things with Bethesda was that they used very minimal cd-check, and now they switch from nearly no copy protection to ... Steam. That stinks.
It would have preferred if they did go the Alpha Protocol way and use Unilock but with the "promise" of releasing a DRM-removal patch 1 or 2 year in the future... now with Steamwork the game will most probably be forever prisoner of Steam.
Posted June 09, 2010
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Petrell: The primary selling point of GOG games is lack of DRM, period. Same reason I buy PDox own games from gamersgate as they aren't infested with any DRM. Obviously other things factor into purchase but DRM is first barrier that will make or break it.
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Fenixp: Err... No.
Most people are buying here because GoG is selling old games and I am pretty sure the idea to sell od games came BEFORE the retailer details. GoG really started out when DRM wasnt that big of a deal - I didnt even know what does it mean. The fact that all the worldwide PC DRM madness started about the time GoG started doesnt automatically make it primary reason most people buy here.
Seriously, people who dont give a damn about old games wouldnt buy a thing here. So yeah, it might be a selling point for you. But I am pretty sure it is not, and cannot be, a primary selling point for GoG - it wouldnt attract nearly as many people alone on the premise of "no DRM" as it does on the selling of old games, customised for modern hardware

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I was here since the closed beta, and a major attractive point to me was the complete removal of DRM from the games they would offer. That, and the amazing casual and laid back attitude of the GOG team, cheers to all of ya, you're the best!! And no DRM scheme is effective, and that includes Steamworks. Steam only mods sold for $50 like L4D can be cracked and played online unofficially. Same for MW2. There are a few more steps to do so, but they are still crackable.
Posted June 09, 2010
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drmlessgames: ...

Well... Sure, but what you're basically claiming is that you don't care WHAT the store sells, as long as it's DRM free, and that... Well, I don't think that would be a standpoint claimed by majority, would it?
Posted June 09, 2010
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drmlessgames: ...
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Fenixp: Well... Sure, but what you're basically claiming is that you don't care WHAT the store sells, as long as it's DRM free, and that... Well, I don't think that would be a standpoint claimed by majority, would it?

Hmm, no, but I was saying that both the removal of DRM and the old nature of the games offered both were the attractive points to me. And i think it was to numerous GoG'ers who are here now too. ; )
Posted June 09, 2010
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drmlessgames: ...
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Fenixp: Well... Sure, but what you're basically claiming is that you don't care WHAT the store sells, as long as it's DRM free, and that... Well, I don't think that would be a standpoint claimed by majority, would it?

Well, one of the main reason I ever register on GoG was because it was DRM-free, and the main reason why I buy ever single game released on it, even those I already own or I those don't care about is because they are DRM-free and I want to support them. Heck I also bought lots of DRM-free Indy games I never played yet just because they were DRM-free. Not to mention Hawx and EndWar. (Actually I am kind of glad that Ubi now use their always-on DRM so I won't have to buy the sequels...)
Seriously it's already lame enough to use DRM on recent games... but an on-line distributor selling old games with DRM wouldn't even have been worth a laugh
Posted June 09, 2010
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drmlessgames: ...

So you are primarily here for what the store has to offer; You wouldn't buy here if the game were crappy smeg knows what from the other side of the moon just because they're DRM free. ... Then again, you wouldn't be buying them if they weren't. ... Rrrright, I'm contradicting myself.
Well at any rate, primary selling point should be what retailer has to offer, shouldn't it? Yes, DRM can play a major role in the decision making as well, but without a wanted product, there wouldn't really be any decision making at all.
That's why it souds kind of silly to me to claim as a fact that primary selling point of GoG would be it's DRM-free status - if just because even large number of the people on forums have pretty liberal stand point as long as it comes to DRM, as far as I can say. Not to mention GoG has a bunch of other selling points, of the same importance to me (or of higher - I mean, optimization for new OSes is pretty damn sweet). And all those points make in decision making process, that is for sure. But I really think those selling points are of smaller importance than what the store sells at all. I really DO think most people are actually here because they like old games - the fact that they also hate DRM is an another thing, and a big plus, but it can hardly make a sale by itself
I just don't like when someone comes around and claims something as a fact, really.
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Gersen: ....

No offence intended, but I dare to say you are NOT a representation of majority on this site - you know, of people who have to struggle to be able to buy FOOD for instance :D
Post edited June 09, 2010 by Fenixp
Posted June 09, 2010
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Fenixp: Well at any rate, primary selling point should be what retailer has to offer, shouldn't it? Yes, DRM can play a major role in the decision making as well, but without a wanted product, there wouldn't really be any decision making at all.

That's a fair point, but it really depends on the person as to how much the lack of DRM plays into it.
I know for me, I'd have bought nothing here if the service had been saddled with some form of DRM, and my game shelf has 17 games on it to date, many of which I've yet to play. Why? Because I can get old games elsewhere if I'm willing to put up with disc checks and DRM or want to go the route of game cracks.
So for me the lack of DRM is THE single make-or-break feature with GOG. I have no trouble believing it's the same for many others.
Posted June 09, 2010
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Fenixp: No offence intended, but I dare to say you are NOT a representation of majority on this site - you know, of people who have to struggle to be able to buy FOOD for instance :D

I never said or ever remotely thought I was ;-) , it was just to point that there actually are a certain number of peoples for which selling games DRM-free was the main reason why they became interested in GoG in the first place.
And I really hope that people that have struggles to be able to buy food don't come here to buy video games instead...
Post edited June 09, 2010 by Gersen
Posted June 09, 2010
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Gersen: And I really hope that people that have struggles to be able to buy food don't come here to buy video games instead...

Oh you bet they do, on several occasions I was eating rolls half of the week to buy a GoG I wanted :D
Posted June 09, 2010
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Gersen: And I really hope that people that have struggles to be able to buy food don't come here to buy video games instead...
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Fenixp: Oh you bet they do, on several occasions I was eating rolls half of the week to buy a GoG I wanted :D

I think most of us have been there. I have. Thankfully I got a raise, haha.
Posted June 09, 2010
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mogamer: I'm having a fantastic time playing Alpha Protocol this week. I'm already planning my second play-through when I can't be at my computer.
Yes, buying the game: That'll show 'em.
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Syme: While the AP isn't as bad as some say, the bad ai tells me that Obsidian is kinda sloppy. Adding this fact to the problems they had with their previous games shows me that they aren't all what people say they are. I have little hope that Fallout: New Vegas will release without some major problems.
And yes, buy the game, if you want to play it. Honestly, with the amount of Steam fanboys that are out there (and publishers know this), Steamworks will not be going away any time soon. No matter what people like us may feel. Sadly, I'm resigned to the fact that gamers, as consumers, will sell their soul (and ownership rights) for the next big game. So, if you want the game, but not the hassles, then buy it but play the cracked version.
Post edited June 09, 2010 by mogamer
Posted June 10, 2010
I was kind of annoyed by this, especially since this will be the first Bethesda game to have any real online DRM at all since you can ignore Games for Windows Live.
I complained about it on my home forum though and everyone attacked me for being a "Steam hater" and went on long rants about how awesome Steam is. Valve have done an incredible job of getting people to the point where PC gaming = Steam and any bad comments about it are shunned. That company is a PR machine.
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Gundato: Look at this forum: Pretty much everyone will freak out if they see a hint of piracy, but I think we all can suspect that a good many of them pirate music and the like.

I never understood why people assume this... surely I can't be alone in never pirating music or movies or anything like that? The worst I have done is download a TV show I forgot to DVR.
Post edited June 10, 2010 by StingingVelvet
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Fallout: New Vegas -- The Bad News(336 posts)(336 posts)
(336 posts)