Posted February 16, 2014
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Popinjay
-
Registered: Sep 2010
From Australia
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Firebrand9
The Red Blaze
Registered: Jul 2012
From United States
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Immoli
Hello
Registered: Jan 2011
From United States
Posted February 16, 2014
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Education is very much about teaching people to think. Using science, they shouldn't just go "This is what we know, remember it for the test," they should teach you WHY they know that. For example, science classes (at least the ones I took) taught geocentrism. Not in "This is a piece of information for the test," but in order for the students to get an understanding of why we know it's wrong.
If all you got out of education was information, you were scammed.
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Rohan15
The Joe
Registered: May 2009
From United States
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Thunderstone
Elementalist
Registered: Jun 2009
From United States
Posted February 16, 2014
I'm not even going to pretend to understand the complexities of gender identity expression nor do I care, but I see this as making sense for Facebook. There was a demand for more flexibility in gender expression and Facebook answered the demand by making those choices available. It makes sense for a social networking site to make such a variety available, since part of social networking is putting your real life information out there so you can associate with people who you know and other like minded individuals. I don't see the harm in making those choices available for people to chose from.
I believe there is a separation between the mind and the body, and there are some things you can not chose. No matter how hard you try if you are not interested in something you are never going to form a true connection to it. The same applies in the biological sense. I imagine it must be hard to be in a body that feels wrong, why else would people go through a sex change? A sex change is a major transition and a choice that is never made lightly, it will affect everything and will likely make someone a social outcast. Friends, family, career, one's future romantic relationship.
It makes sense there is something hardwired in our brain that controls our experiences of the world and of ourselves. One can find cases of people reporting phantom limb syndrome or alien hand syndrome where it feels like there are pieces of the body that does not belong or extra pieces that are field but are not physically there. An outsider can report the limb does not exist or the hand really is a part of the body, but to the one affected the outside perception does not seem to be the truth. Something just feels wrong, and no amount of logic will convince these people otherwise.
Gender and sexuality is not a choice. What is a choice is how people to chose to express it and to what extent to pursue it. Facebook's gender selection is accommodating the demand for more options for people to express themselves.
I believe there is a separation between the mind and the body, and there are some things you can not chose. No matter how hard you try if you are not interested in something you are never going to form a true connection to it. The same applies in the biological sense. I imagine it must be hard to be in a body that feels wrong, why else would people go through a sex change? A sex change is a major transition and a choice that is never made lightly, it will affect everything and will likely make someone a social outcast. Friends, family, career, one's future romantic relationship.
It makes sense there is something hardwired in our brain that controls our experiences of the world and of ourselves. One can find cases of people reporting phantom limb syndrome or alien hand syndrome where it feels like there are pieces of the body that does not belong or extra pieces that are field but are not physically there. An outsider can report the limb does not exist or the hand really is a part of the body, but to the one affected the outside perception does not seem to be the truth. Something just feels wrong, and no amount of logic will convince these people otherwise.
Gender and sexuality is not a choice. What is a choice is how people to chose to express it and to what extent to pursue it. Facebook's gender selection is accommodating the demand for more options for people to express themselves.
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StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted February 16, 2014
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Seriously, there's nothing to debate when this is the response I get.
Post edited February 16, 2014 by StingingVelvet
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Starmaker
go Clarice!
Registered: Sep 2010
From Russian Federation
Posted February 16, 2014
low rated
No, and also, you're an idiot (you're welcome). No one has ever checked my chromosomes. The vast, overwhelming majority of people is never going to have their XX/XY/other status checked. And yet, somehow, the overwhelming majority of people goes through life knowing themselves to be men or women. *That* is gender.
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Vestin
only_droid@town
Registered: Sep 2008
From Poland
Posted February 16, 2014
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Guh.
Seriously - since you're one of the few people here who seem to "get" what we're talking about, could you please cut everyone else some slack, and explain things where they are unclear? Hell - I don't feel all that up-to-date on the subject matter myself, but that merely makes me uninformed, not particularly hostile :|.
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Telika
Registered: Apr 2012
From Switzerland
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Vestin
only_droid@town
Registered: Sep 2008
From Poland
Posted February 16, 2014
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Now that I think about it - is it fair for a minority of people to demand the change of a given society's categories? The alternatives are, of course, for the deviants to remain pariahs, find a different culture, or change their own lives and conform. Not the most thrilling of choices, but is really justified to change what "normal" is to be "normal"? That's a normative issue, of course...
As a person generally perceived as eccentric, I can certainly see the temptation, but I'll personally settle for company of like-minded individuals alongside lukewarm tolerance of the general population.
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Telika
Registered: Apr 2012
From Switzerland
Posted February 16, 2014
low rated
They don't have to. Mental categories simply must adapt to increasing knowledge and understanding of the world, or else it's pure obscurantism. It means hanging onto outdated views of the world. Updating categories with scientific progress should be a spontaneous goal, by society as a whole.
And you have to make a distinction between statistical normality (a descriptive notion) and a judgemental, moralist notion of "normality" (normative use of the word). The problem is when "ab-normal" means "bad/evil", which is generally the case for the conservative fetishists of uniformity. Normality is not a value by itself, automatically warranting social pressures into conforming it. And those who make it a value automatically attribute negative moral values to any deviance from that statistical norm.
Also, I was referring more to the categorial monsters of Mary Douglas' studies on purity and danger. It's a specific sub-set of deviance, I'd say.
And you have to make a distinction between statistical normality (a descriptive notion) and a judgemental, moralist notion of "normality" (normative use of the word). The problem is when "ab-normal" means "bad/evil", which is generally the case for the conservative fetishists of uniformity. Normality is not a value by itself, automatically warranting social pressures into conforming it. And those who make it a value automatically attribute negative moral values to any deviance from that statistical norm.
Also, I was referring more to the categorial monsters of Mary Douglas' studies on purity and danger. It's a specific sub-set of deviance, I'd say.
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Reever
Demon
Registered: Sep 2012
From Germany
Posted February 16, 2014
People should be able to define themselves as whatever they want to, it's not like it's anyone else's business.
And people who're really interested in this topic should read Telika's post.
Further examples to support what she's saying are how cultures in South Asia view genders (with there being a "Third Gender" etc.)
I know it's difficult to break out of notions imposed on yourself by society and norms for so long, but sometimes, it's just better to inform yourself and see things from other points of view.
And people who're really interested in this topic should read Telika's post.
Further examples to support what she's saying are how cultures in South Asia view genders (with there being a "Third Gender" etc.)
I know it's difficult to break out of notions imposed on yourself by society and norms for so long, but sometimes, it's just better to inform yourself and see things from other points of view.
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koima57
Old User
Registered: Sep 2011
From France
Posted February 16, 2014
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And people who're really interested in this topic should read Telika's post.
Further examples to support what she's saying are how cultures in South Asia view genders (with there being a "Third Gender" etc.)
I know it's difficult to break out of notions imposed on yourself by society and norms for so long, but sometimes, it's just better to inform yourself and see things from other points of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money#Sex_reassignment_of_David_Reimer
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Reever
Demon
Registered: Sep 2012
From Germany
Posted February 16, 2014
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And people who're really interested in this topic should read Telika's post.
Further examples to support what she's saying are how cultures in South Asia view genders (with there being a "Third Gender" etc.)
I know it's difficult to break out of notions imposed on yourself by society and norms for so long, but sometimes, it's just better to inform yourself and see things from other points of view.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money#Sex_reassignment_of_David_Reimer
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Vestin
only_droid@town
Registered: Sep 2008
From Poland
Posted February 16, 2014
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I guess an even more pertinent notion would be the "naturalistic fallacy".
I don't think it's even worth our time to consider such ridiculous a stance, at least here.