I was more alluding to the fact that instead of going - 'Where the f*ck is his alignment??' the same as everyone else, you were just handily ignoring the fact it hadn't appeared. Yeah, and Serial killers, Vigilantes etc etc, as Jmich pointed out....

As always at the beginning of a new day, the very first thing we should be reviewing are the cold hard facts. All else is conjecture, and should be discarded at the outset. It will shape your thoughts as the day goes on, but here is the reality so far.

Lynched - N0x0ss. Flipped TOWN - Lone Mason (also curious as how to this would work?!!!).
Bandwagon - in order of voting...

SirPrimalForm
CSPVG
Robbeasy
TwisterBE
P1na
Quadralien
Lifthrasil

Night Killed - P1na. NO ALIGNMENT given.

So - now onto the conjecture.....

Main source of information is to analyse the Bandwagon - there are a number of theories, but we can safely assume (percentage wise) that there is at least one Scum on that wagon, possibly two.

So - Hammerer was Lifthrasil. Would Scum be obvious and Hammer first day? Its a whole load of WIFOM, but I would say its a possibility - Lifthrasil is an inexperienced player, and could have got eager. Note the lengthy reasons why hammered when doing it.

Wagon Starter - SirPrimalForm. Later in the game, I would say this carries a lot more weight, but on first day I think this is diluted. It still has significance, and is worthy of scrutiny, so lets do that. Way back in post 71 was N0x0ss voted for by SPF, using a post by Joe to make his point for him, which is interesting - a good scum tactic that. Use someone elses point to vote for someone, then when they flip Town you can point and say 'well i was just agreeing with X, so you should be looking at them'....

Second on Wagon - CSPVG. Only after Liftharasil voted for N0x0ss the first time (post 115). Where has that name popped up before...?..;)...
CSPVG kept it short and sweet - post 141. Could be seen as a pressure vote, or a smooth scum vote to just hop on without much fuss.

Third on Wagon - ME!. I get scum points for hopping on the wagon immediately after CSPVG - a scum tactic is to wait for a viable wagon, then to jump on it - N0x0ss at that point was already on 3 votes, so it could be said I was jumping on the first good bandwagon that got rolling. In my favour though is that I have outlined a perfectly good reason for voting (post 142) - in fact if i remember correctly it was the final post of many that I thought anti-town by N0x0ss that pushed me to vote for him.
Also - I unvoted N0x0ss in post 162 - I felt the day had a long time to go and wanted to get as much info out of it as possible, so it was removing any slight chance of a speed lynch (assuming a 3 scum ratio). revoted in post 210 after a reread where I noted another slip from N0x0ss that stood right out - it was simply too big to ignore. I felt happy at that point that he was definitely scum.

Next up was deadline announcement - significant, as it gives scum the time by which they have to get a bandwagon completed. Votes after deadline announcement I ALWAYS think carry a little more weight than those before..

Fourth on - TwisterBE. Reason being he was also on 3 votes at time. deadline announcent may have pushed him to vote. Not a great reason for voting for someone - not actually thinking they are necessarily Scum, but voting for them to save your own skin....

Point of interest - SPF does a revote and joky megavote of N0x0ss in post 298 - why??

Fifth on - P1na....we had a big vote split at this point. So voting could have gone either way, and this vote carried a lot of weight. P1na has since been NK'd, so we know he ain't Mafia, but we have to keep in mind he could have easily been a different outsider role. P1na DOES mention he has the most significant vote (post 391).

Last two votes are less than 24 hours before deadline.

Sixth on - Quadralien. Reason stated was solely to get a lynch before deadline. Not a good reason at all in my book, but slightly forgivable given the time remaining. Could easily be a scum hopping on to make sure, although logically a scum would be just as happy with a no-lynch scenario...

So - there you go.

From this, my main suspects at moment are TwisterBE, SPF , and Quadralien. Two for dodgy reasons for voting, and SPF for the unnecessary revote and megavote joke - almost like he was reminding all of the lovely bandwagon he had started...

If I was mafia, I'd probably kill Flubb, or one of the new guys. The new guys are a wild card, Flubb for his meta card (although admittedly, I'd nk anyone for bringing metagaming up).

As far as being able to look into pina's kill...I honestly am looking at it in the simplist way possible. We don't have the information to make a more detailed guess on the setup. He most likely was killed by the Mafia, and although we can't judge his role, I'd say it's probably safe to assume he was Town at this point. More information can lead us to come back and discuss this point.

So Twilight has stooped to playing the Meta Card. I never pictured you as a Meta-ist.

Y'know metaism is just a throwback to the old days when town and mafia couldn't attend the same schools. Where there were town and mafia water fountains and bathrooms. Are you trying to dredge up those horrible memories?!?

Let's move forward!!

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day little mafia boys and mafia girls will be able to join hands with little town boys and town girls and walk together as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

Regarding P1na's death, I agree we should stick to the facts at hand. We can draw some assumptions being as Keng was a Town mason (kiled prior to game start) so shouldn' t Kodos be town?? But this is an assumption...technically.


BTW, nice write up there Robbeasy. Looks like you bought yourself some smarty pants.

First question: well, it's more a matter of impression than a comparison who has played the most games. Of all the players you and Joe just seem to be the most experienced and just seem to know what you are doing. You are right, the same argument goes for Robbeasy. I just forgot him. Flubbucket produces too much nonsense to come over as a threat (which of course might be a ploy) and Twilight I just can't place.

Regarding P1na: what made me suspicious was his playstyle. Joking around, distracting, not contributing anything useful (to my impression). So I thought him more suspicious than N0x0ss, who overdid the 'making himself suspicious' thing more than it would be useful for a mafia. You shared my doubts about the main suspects. So I tried to get support to lynch someone who I deemed most likely to be scum. Turns out I was wrong. As for me 'deciding to night kill P1na' ... I thought the scum would deliberate who to kill and decide together? Not one mafia alone.
So the only way I could decide on my own who to kill at night would be if I had some lone-night-kill role like assassin or vigilante. But that would again mean that the mafia didn't kill anyone since we only have one night-dead. And at least as an assassin P1na wouldn't have been my target. He was no threat to me. I probably would have killed Twister who had made me his main suspect.

You was plural. I also think a mafia team decides collectively who to kill and why, but it should be possible for one person to convince the others that his choice is the correct one.

Ah, but killing the one that suspects you the most does add more suspicion to you. Isn't that what all spouse homicides have taught us? In 90% of the cases, it's the spouse who did it?

Turns out I'm not that good at convincing people. And it may surprise you, but I'm actually not married to TwisterBE!

"Turns out"? That's a bit of a slip isn't it?

Well yes you'ld have thought that the mafia would have learned to nightkill me by now, being as I am never wrong and insatiable in my hunger for justice, but I guess they are just paralysed with fear. Attempting to kill me would probably backfire on them so horribly.

Anyway. Turns out. I want to vote based entirely on this. It looks like the slip that we've been waiting fifteen games for.

vote Lifthrasil

oh wait you were probably talking about voting for p1na yesterday? I get it... Is that what you were talking about? Or were you talking about convincing your mafia buddies last night?

unvote Lifthrasil

Why must I always think things through to their logical conclusion?

ick. I've just read that back. What a mess.

"Turns out" Sounds like a slip because here's how the conversation went:

JMich - I think you wanted to kill p1na
Lifth - But it's not up to just me is it?
JMic - it's possible for one mafia to convince their teammates who to kill
Lift - TURNS OUT I'm not that good at convincing.

WHICH SOUNDED to me like Lifthrasil WANTED to nightkill someone who wasn't p1na (Perhaps me or Jmich...) but was ignored.
I thought to myself "where else has Lifthrasil had a chance to try and convince people and failed?"
So I thought that it was a silly slip like you here about in the tv movies and then I remembered that Lifthrasil had done that very thing yesterday votetime. Good work Joe. Never-wrong as always.

The bit about the mafia being terrified of Joe harbinger-of-pain is in response to Lifthrasil (and, actually, everybody else) saying that I should be nightkilled immediately.

I want to hear from Quadralien!

Yes, I was talking about trying to convince you all to vote for P1na. And not a single one followed me. So it seems that I am not very convincing.

well of course you would say that.

You've convinced me that I "...produces too much nonsense to come over as a threat..." so clearly I am town.

Go me!!!



I drink to hide my pain....

Pardon my late posting - didn't quite find the time yesterday.

To answer JoeSapphire's "if I were Mafia" question - if I were Mafia I would have targeted TwisterBE, given that his posts were quite infrequent and with not much content - I might check back and see if his posts were more detailed before I arrived (I'm on my lunch break, I really don't have time to re-check right now), as I'm fairly certain he did end up with a stack on him at one point. I admit P1na would have been my second choice.

I'll post more this evening, hopefully - I'm out of time for now.

Complicated votecount made out of boredom:

Not voting – CSPVG, flubbucket, Jmich, JoeSapphire, Lifthrasil, QuadrAlien, Robbeasy, SirPrimalform, TwilightBard, TwisterBE

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Everyone is equally close to lynch with 0 votes, sitting at L-6.

This is funny.

QuadrAlien has 14 total posts (pazzer posts included).

TwisterBE has 12 total posts.


Can the Pot and the Kettle both be mafia???

I won't argue about TwisterBE's lack of content, but I'm not reading a bunch of QuadrAlien-Spam am I.