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General discussion (archive)Evil, evil Japanese Simulator Pulled from Amazon(105 posts)(105 posts)
(105 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 14, 2009
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Shoelip: I can see where you're coming from with "Logic" Zhirek, but I hope you see how saying something is illogical because it doesn't take into account someone's irrational biases sounds sort of... off.

I does sound off, but it's the only way to use logic and emotional values to find things out.
If I use logic to establish things I usually exclude emotions because it is easier.
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Shoelip: In America we have really bass ackwards views on sex versus violence left over from the Puritans. Sex is evil, violence is good. Purity through pain or some such bullshit.

In the parts where I live Sex is good, violence is good and puppies/kittens are good.
If you combine any of the two then in most cases it is bad.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Shoelip: ... you're probably not an American.
Then punch yourself.
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Weclock: Dude, what tipped you off he wasn't American? was it his note saying he's from the netherlands?

I was following up his unfinished reponse to Zeewolf, because as we all know, all Americans are more offended by a nipple than graphic violence, except the ones who aren't.
Also, why did you include the last line of my post that I said to Cheese? Or did you only read those parts and completely ignore the context?
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Shoelip: I can see where you're coming from with "Logic" Zhirek, but I hope you see how saying something is illogical because it doesn't take into account someone's irrational biases sounds sort of... off.
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Zhirek: I does sound off, but it's the only way to use logic and emotional values to find things out.
If I use logic to establish things I usually exclude emotions because it is easier.
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Shoelip: In America we have really bass ackwards views on sex versus violence left over from the Puritans. Sex is evil, violence is good. Purity through pain or some such bullshit.

In the parts where I live Sex is good, violence is good and puppies/kittens are good.
If you combine any of the two then in most cases it is bad.

Ok, now I think I don't know what you're trying to say about logic.
The point about violence and sex is that violence is harmful, sex is not so harmful, so why is sex worse than violence? Sex and violence together is not worse than any of them, but you should leave puppies and kittens out of it unless you're a dwarf.
Post edited February 14, 2009 by Shoelip
Posted February 14, 2009
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Weclock: Dude, what tipped you off he wasn't American? was it his note saying he's from the netherlands?
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Shoelip: I was following up his unfinished reponse to Zeewolf, because as we all know, all Americans are more offended by a nipple than graphic violence, except the ones who aren't.
Also, why did you include the last line of my post that I said to Cheese? Or did you only read those parts and completely ignore the context?
oops, miscut, I'lld edit it.
Posted February 14, 2009
Well, I am offended and worried about this, but that's emotional, not logical.
The sad truth is that murder is a socially accepted topic in western cultures, From day one we learn that killing is OK under certain circumstances, And since killing the bad guy is OK, any other form of killing doesn't seem so bad to us.
But rape can never be right, under no circumstances, so we're simply not used to it. We can't laugh about it. We can't make stupid jokes about it.
But if we can't make stupid jokes about it, that means we have to take it serious and assume that other people who might play the game would take it serious.
And is there anything more disturbing than imagining somebody playing a rape game and thinking that it could be real?
Posted February 14, 2009
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hansschmucker: Well, I am offended and worried about this, but that's emotional, not logical.
The sad truth is that murder is a socially accepted topic in western cultures, From day one we learn that killing is OK under certain circumstances, And since killing the bad guy is OK, any other form of killing doesn't seem so bad to us.
But rape can never be right, under no circumstances, so we're simply not used to it. We can't laugh about it. We can't make stupid jokes about it.
But if we can't make stupid jokes about it, that means we have to take it serious and assume that other people who might play the game would take it serious.
And is there anything more disturbing than imagining somebody playing a rape game and thinking that it could be real?

Someone playing Manhunt and thinking it could be real?
Posted February 14, 2009
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Shoelip: Someone playing Manhunt and thinking it could be real?

But that's not what I have to assume if somebody says he's playing Manhunt
Posted February 14, 2009
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Shoelip: Someone playing Manhunt and thinking it could be real?
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hansschmucker: But that's not what I have to assume if somebody says he's playing Manhunt

You make an interesting point about the emotional response to it. As I said though, for some, rape is a fantasy. As long as it stays a fantasy, there's nothing wrong with that.
I don't think anyone is suggesting it's weird or wrong to have a disturbed response to this game, it's just that given our acceptance of such violent games - it warrants a bit of thought beyond the initial emotional response.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Shoelip: Someone playing Manhunt and thinking it could be real?
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hansschmucker: But that's not what I have to assume if somebody says he's playing Manhunt

Why not? It's literally a murder simulator. It's not like you're shooting people or slicing people with a sword. You're sneaking up behind them, wrapping a plastic bad around their head, then hitting them in the face with a baseball bat until they stop struggling. From this whole logical emotion standpoint or whatever, that's a whole lot worse.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Nafe: To make a point out of this rambling post, I think that if you're willing to analyse your emotional responses you'll see that they're not always logically sound. This rape game, while pretty disturbing, can't logically be called much worse than something like Manhunt or GTA.

Couldn't agree with you more.
Emotional responses are usually not logical.
But you're still wrong and still contradicting yourself.
Let's take a look at this sentence I've led logic out of it because you're exchanging an opinion and not proving something:
This rape game, while pretty disturbing, can't be called much worse than something like Manhunt.
Now we distil some facts out of that sentence
1 This rape game is disturbing.
2. This rape game is as bad as the game manhunt.
We can agree that this is your point in that sentence, right?
Now we use those facts to extrapolate more information out of it.
From 2 we determine that the rape game is equal to manhunt, because you also agree that manhunt can't be called much worse than the rape game.
If we combine this with 1 we get the following sentence:
Manhunt is disturbing.
But you have also said that you don't find graphical violence disturbing.
QED
Don't get me wrong I can easily agree with you on a couple of points in your post. But you can't say A < B so logically A = B.
Also if you use terms such as worse you first have to establish when something is good and when something is bad, also these things for determination must be quantifiable.
If this is not possible then you're making an opinion and not proving something.
Posted February 14, 2009
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hansschmucker: And is there anything more disturbing than imagining somebody playing a rape game and thinking that it could be real?
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Shoelip: Someone playing Manhunt and thinking it could be real?

Yeah, exactly, that's my point as well.
I understand why people are so horrified by this game - I am quite uncomfortable with it myself. But again, not really any more than I am with Manhunt, which is honestly a game I can not stand at all. So the bottom line is that I choose to keep both these games out of my gaming life, but I do respect their right to exist.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Shoelip: Why not? It's literally a murder simulator.

I have to call you out on that one. That crazy yank lawyer uses the word "simulator" quite a bit when trying to attack the GTA franchise. The fact is, it's not a simulator and neither is this RapeLay thing. They're games. Manhunt isn't going to give me the skills to go on a killing rampage, the rape game wouldn't give me any insight in to how to rape people. A proper flight simulator with proper equipment, used enough, would give me a good idea how to fly a plane.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Weclock: I just read that you can knock up the girls in the game, and if you don't force them to have an abortion they get more visibly pregnant each time you rapelay them.
As a man who's been with a couple pregnant women, I consider this a feature.

Except for the part that the woman in question will throw you in front of a moving train if don't force an abortion before child is born.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Nafe: To make a point out of this rambling post, I think that if you're willing to analyse your emotional responses you'll see that they're not always logically sound. This rape game, while pretty disturbing, can't logically be called much worse than something like Manhunt or GTA.
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Zhirek: Couldn't agree with you more.
Emotional responses are usually not logical.
But you're still wrong and still contradicting yourself.
Let's take a look at this sentence I've led logic out of it because you're exchanging an opinion and not proving something:
This rape game, while pretty disturbing, can't be called much worse than something like Manhunt.
Now we distil some facts out of that sentence
1 This rape game is disturbing.
2. This rape game is as bad as the game manhunt.
We can agree that this is your point in that sentence, right?
Now we use those facts to extrapolate more information out of it.
From 2 we determine that the rape game is equal to manhunt, because you also agree that manhunt can't be called much worse than the rape game.
If we combine this with 1 we get the following sentence:
Manhunt is disturbing.
But you have also said that you don't find graphical violence disturbing.
QED
Don't get me wrong I can easily agree with you on a couple of points in your post. But you can't say A < B so logically A = B.
Also if you use terms such as worse you first have to establish when something is good and when something is bad, also these things for determination must be quantifiable.
If this is not possible then you're making an opinion and not proving something.

Ok... so what I'm getting from this is that your argument is that while emotion is illogical, it is logical to form opinions based solely on emotion? Therefore because we irrationally view rape as worse than murder it is logical?
Posted February 14, 2009
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Zhirek: Couldn't agree with you more.
Emotional responses are usually not logical.
But you're still wrong and still contradicting yourself.
Let's take a look at this sentence I've led logic out of it because you're exchanging an opinion and not proving something:
This rape game, while pretty disturbing, can't be called much worse than something like Manhunt.
Now we distil some facts out of that sentence
1 This rape game is disturbing.
2. This rape game is as bad as the game manhunt.
We can agree that this is your point in that sentence, right?
Now we use those facts to extrapolate more information out of it.
From 2 we determine that the rape game is equal to manhunt, because you also agree that manhunt can't be called much worse than the rape game.
If we combine this with 1 we get the following sentence:
Manhunt is disturbing.
But you have also said that you don't find graphical violence disturbing.
QED
Don't get me wrong I can easily agree with you on a couple of points in your post. But you can't say A < B so logically A = B.
Also if you use terms such as worse you first have to establish when something is good and when something is bad, also these things for determination must be quantifiable.
If this is not possible then you're making an opinion and not proving something.
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Shoelip: Ok... so what I'm getting from this is that your argument is that while emotion is illogical, it is logical to form opinions based solely on emotion? Therefore because we irrationally view rape as worse than murder it is logical?

It is logical that our emotions work that way. Doesn't make it right, but understandable. Killing is (as I said before) sometimes OK in our society. Playing cops and robbers comes to mind.
Posted February 14, 2009
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Weclock: I just read that you can knock up the girls in the game, and if you don't force them to have an abortion they get more visibly pregnant each time you rapelay them.
As a man who's been with a couple pregnant women, I consider this a feature.
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Petrell: Except for the part that the woman in question will throw you in front of a moving train if don't force an abortion before child is born.
Also, the fact that the sex wouldn't be consensual.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Evil, evil Japanese Simulator Pulled from Amazon(105 posts)(105 posts)
(105 posts)