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Trilarion: Actually, there is no need to bash Impulse too much. It's not worse than Steam. It claimed it's better (Bill of Rights) and removed this ad later, so its kind of honest again :). Since I am against online DRM and are abstaining from Steam, I should extend my avoidance to Impulse. No hard feelings actually, they still have my sympathy, cause they are a relatively small company and actually produce turn based strategy computer games which is rare - I see them more like a misguided friend, if ever they find back to the right way, I will welcome them again.
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StingingVelvet: What's a shame is that if the game was in good release condition in the box you could buy it and never really worry about activating on Impulse. Unfortunately this was not the case.

AFAIK that breaks number 4 in their Bill of Rights.
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DavidGil: And as a second side-note, the web is really slamming Stardock at the moment regarding Elemental. Myself, apart from the slow start-up issue I mentioned and some sluggishness (in terms of frame-rate), I've not encountered any crashes etc. so... *shrugs* I'm not trying to say I don't believe there aren't any problems though that people are experiencing and I've hardly played through an entire game at this point (nor have I touched the campaign).
The actual start-up problem I've encountered in terms of slow loads is actually quite odd as well. I can move my cursor down to the bottom of the booting up screen and I'll see the cursor change to the Windows one without pressing the alt + tab buttons or anything else. Sometimes, I do have to alt + tab out to get it running as well and it takes a while to get that to work. And sometimes it boots up quite quickly in comparison without trouble. But outside of that, I've not encountered the gameplay issues people reference outside of general sluggishness at times.

I've not had many of the problems people are claiming exist, either, aside from the framerate being a little sluggish at times. Since there are so many people having problems, though, it does sound like they weren't testing as thoroughly as they should have been. I've been monitoring the game and playing since beta 3, and they've made some pretty drastic changes over a short amount of time. That's probably part of the problem. Being a programmer myself, I know this can be a recipe for disaster...
A lot of the negative reaction began before they release the official day-0 patch. In hindsight, releasing a pre-release version was probably a mistake, but it seems like they had good intentions - to give the fans access to the game early, even though they still were working on it.
The game may have some issues right now, but Stardock has a good record of supporting their games with patches after release, so I'm sure it will get better. I'm enjoying it, and it's quite playable for me. YMMV...
Post edited August 26, 2010 by elisstar
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elisstar: A lot of the negative reaction began before they release the official day-0 patch. In hindsight, releasing a pre-release version was probably a mistake, but it seems like they had good intentions - to give the fans access to the game early, even though they still were working on it.

The thing is... this "prerelease" version is the one on the discs. And there's no guarantee that the people buying it can actually patch it. because unless I've missed something, the box does not state that an internet connection is required to play the finished game.
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CrashToOverride: Which is the reason we have crap sequel after crap sequel over and over. All the developers have to do is package the same game over and over, just re-texture and add a couple new things and those people will gobble it up like candy.

I actually like that. If the game is good, I am ok with a "remake" more-of-the-same kind. At less, they can focus on the story and not on the engine (esp. for adventure games and RPGs)
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elisstar: A lot of the negative reaction began before they release the official day-0 patch. In hindsight, releasing a pre-release version was probably a mistake, but it seems like they had good intentions - to give the fans access to the game early, even though they still were working on it.
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Zeewolf: The thing is... this "prerelease" version is the one on the discs. And there's no guarantee that the people buying it can actually patch it. because unless I've missed something, the box does not state that an internet connection is required to play the finished game.

You're right at the core of it and I wouldn't expect someone to know this, but Stardock has always (since before Impulse) locked their patches and updates behind a registration system (in all fairness sometimes these updates included expanded gameplay - but it has been done even for pure bugfixes).
Stardock has never seen a problem with this and you can find quotes of Brad flying off the handle about it from back in something like 2002.
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CrashToOverride: Which is the reason we have crap sequel after crap sequel over and over. All the developers have to do is package the same game over and over, just re-texture and add a couple new things and those people will gobble it up like candy.
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Narwhal: I actually like that. If the game is good, I am ok with a "remake" more-of-the-same kind. At less, they can focus on the story and not on the engine (esp. for adventure games and RPGs)

Yeah that works in some games, but now it is getting stagnant. There is only so many Gears of Wars they can make before people get tired of it all.
Another patch for your pleasure: http://forums.elementalgame.com/393126
So... what's the opinion on the gameplay? Is it a really good turn-based game now, or going to be, or never will be?
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gyokzoli: So... what's the opinion on the gameplay? Is it a really good turn-based game now, or going to be, or never will be?

I did a review of the game last night in the early hours of the morning, so it could probably do with updating (both for grammar and content as it can be updated easily and quickly), as I haven't played through a whole game at the moment. I just wanted to get it up with all of the negative feedback. It's long, like 1778 words long, and I'll post it here but I hope you'll click the link below if you find it helpful because I don't write articles for the sheer pleasure of it. ;) (Not a professional reviewer btw, I do this for ad revenue and low upfront payments.)
Link: http://www.helium.com/items/1934660-elemental-war-of-magic-review
Elemental is a 4X game made by Stardock, developers of Galactic Civilizations 2. They also published Sins of a Solar Empire and (even though it did receive a bad reputation at launch for server issues) Demigod. Galactic Civilizations 2 however is widely thought of as one of the best games in the genre however and it is often compared to Civilization in space and also to Master of Orion 2. Regarding Elemental, the game is largely different from others on the market and it draws quite a fair bit of inspiration from Master of Magic, an old game by Micropose. With the game being fantasy themed and having RPG elements amongst other things, it should be different enough to Civilization (which is at the end of the day going to be more popular and will have a bigger budget).
Now then, before moving on, it needs to be said that Stardock have received a lot of flak for the game being released a few days early by retailers and them (them being Stardock) deciding to make the game available early on their digital platform, Impulse. Esentially, they made a pre-release version available. In addition, people are calling the game a paid for beta and that it’s unplayable. PC Gamer has even warned gamers to stay away. Now, before it sounds like I’m bashing the game, I want to state that I’ve really not had many issues at all apart from two things that will be mentioned below (ATI graphic card users might have some problems with the game though from what I gather). This doesn’t mean that everyone’s lying, but it does mean I haven’t experienced what others have. Before discussing what the game is like, my specs are as follows:
AMD Phenom 8450
Triple Core Processor
2.11ghz, 3.00 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT
Windows XP
I thought I’d include the above because it might help people out who are thinking of purchasing the game (like I said, I’ll mention the problems I’ve encountered further down). I do play the game at 1824 x 1048 resolution and have rather high settings as well (not max). Also, it’s worth keeping in mind that to download patches, you need to register your game with Impulse, Stardock's digital download service. As of now, the version on the DVDs isn’t that good, but the game’s version is at 1.05 now. So, they are working on fixing any issues quite quickly, as the game’s only been out for like three or so days as of writing this. They are also committed to improving the game over the long haul (this’ll be further referenced later on).
So, the game? Before discussing that, I’ve not tried the campaign mode yet (I’ll update this when I have and have played quite a bit more). It is known that the story surrounds a race referred to as the Titans destroyed the world though and it is up to you, a Sovereign, to bring life back to the land. However, in all honesty, the story is not a big component of these types of games.
Regarding gameplay, before you even set foot in the world, you can choose to take control of one of the pre-generated sovereigns or you can choose to create one yourself. If you decide to create one, you determine the sovereigns statistics, traits and (in a nod to Master of Magic) the spellbooks he/she has at their disposal. Then you choose your faction (each has different strengths). There are ten factions, with them split evenly amongst five races. Think elves, men, dwarves and then goblins, orcs etc. However, those races aren’t actually present, as the races are all more or less human (or they once were). There are monsters etc. in the game, but it’s just that they can’t be chosen as a race. Also, the different races have different ideals which affects how they play. The can be recruited though with the right technology.
When you actually get in the game, you only have control of your Sovereign. Nearby however is a patch of fertile land you can build a farm on. That’s necessary for settlements to have food. Luckily, your Sovereign can build one settlement only by expending his essence to bring the land back to life (the land actually changes from being barren to having green fields covering it over time and if you're an evil 'race', it won't be covered with green fields). After that, you need to use Pioneers to build settlements. Anyway, a nice feature is that you don’t go to a seperate screen to build cities. Instead, you choose what to build and where on the map itself. So, cities can be quite sprawling. Next, each settlement has a sphere of influence and if it touches a resource, you can claim it (resources could be horses, gold mines or even a monster den that allows you to recruit from it). As time goes on, your settlement’s population grows, and to recruit anyone, you need people. So, if you draft one person into your army, you lose a person in the settlement’s population. Settlements don’t grow to have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people either. It’s a nice touch and this sort of thing also applies to resources. Armor requires metal etc. and you can’t have mounted units without access to horses. Also, there is technology to research and spells. The amount of research points you have depends on heroes/special units and also buildings (research for spells and technology is done seperately). This leads onto the next point.
You can recruit champions/heroes and they have their own statistics, plus inventory. They can also level up like your sovereign can. Tied into this is an RPG system of questing and random enemy spawns. The quests and locations you can find on the map, as well as the enemies you run into, are dicated by what you’ve researched in the adevnture line of the technology tree. There is even a dynasty system implemented where you can get married and have children, alongside a diplomacy system.
Combat wise, you can choose to take control of it, unlike in Galactic Civilizations. It switches to a different map and you can give orders to your units. It’s turn-based. Right now though, the combat isn’t too interesting, but it has the potential to be. Not just with tweaks either, but with new content. Stardock have promised continued support in the form of free updates for the next few years (a year or two, maybe more). This should include new quests and technologies (they may not even mention new additions in patch notes), alongside new spells amongst other things. In particular though, as it pertains to combat, there will hopefully be new equipment as well. You see, anything you buy for your sovereign and champions at town shops, can also be equipped on your ordinary units. There’s a design unit feature for that. As new items are added, the options for tactical combat should also expand by giving you new ways to build units and such hopefully (this is a hope on my part and nothing definite). And even if the free content updates don’t add new items, the game is designed to thrive on user-generated content. Related to this, Stardock have also said they want to do one or two expansions. Lastly, don’t expect combat to involve hundreds of units though, as you can’t field too many.
That is pretty much it regarding the gameplay and I have no problems with it, apart from the combat not being too interesting at this stage. There are two issues I’ve encountered and they’re listed below (plus, there’s a non-gameplay related issue, but one tied to documentation and help).
Firstly, the graphics are quite unique and I have no problem with them, though others may. It has a water-colour painting feel to it. Also, they have a great feature where you can zoom out or play the entire game even when zoomed in on a cloth map (it’s great for computers that are low-end). It’s a nice feature because it really brings back a feel of looking at the map of Middle-Earth in Lords of the Rings. City names are also included on the map. Sound wise, I have no problems. However, the manual isn’t too great and the initial campaign (pre-day 0 patch) wasn’t helpful either according to reports. This wasn’t an issue to be fair though, as I found out how the game worked quickly enough. I can see how people new to the genre might have problems though, considering the user-interface isn’t the greatest out there (but I don’t find it as bad as people suggest). Next, the game can be a bit sluggish at times. Lastly, I had an odd issue where I’d run the game up and on the initial load screen before the menu, it would feel like it wasn’t loading. I could sit here for a few minutes and it wouldn’t have loaded. If I moved my mouse cursor towards the bottom of the screen without pressing alt + tab, I’d see the Windows cursor. Yet, oddly enough, it sometimes booted up fine and very quickly. The only things I can think of regarding the issue is that it could be my internet security program interfering or it could be that my computer’s doing something. Regardless, when it happened, I normally fixed it by alt + tabbing out, then opening the game back up or by clicking along the bottom of the screen where the task bar is normally situated. And funnily enough, the last few times the game has been booted up, I’ve had no problem with the loading despite having internet security enabled.
At the end of the day, it feels like I’ve played a different game to ones claiming it’s broken. Yes, it’s rough around the edges and needs a bit more polish, but it’s hardly broken and unplayable. But the key phrase would be ‘for me’. Also, it’s best to look upon the game as being bare bones right now, when you consider what it can be in a year or two’s time with Stardock’s continued support if they do what they say (and I believe they will whole-heartedly). Then you also have to consider the user-generated content that will undoubtedly come. In fact, they even have a tool in the game where you can design things and then go online to find extra content.
So, it’s rough around the edges, but I’m sure the issues that there are now will be ironed out over time, and remember that Stardock are not a Blizzard. Yet they’re still working hard on patches. All in all, I’ve had no problems with the game and can see its potential.
Post edited August 27, 2010 by DavidGil
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DavidGil: ...

Thank you, it's a really nice review! I even clicked on the link (and one of the ads there) to support you. :)
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Zeewolf: The thing is... this "prerelease" version is the one on the discs. And there's no guarantee that the people buying it can actually patch it. because unless I've missed something, the box does not state that an internet connection is required to play the finished game.

True, but I don't think that patching will be a problem for a majority of gamers. It sure sucks for the ones that can't patch, though. If that were me, I'd definitely call support about getting a replacement disc.
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gyokzoli: So... what's the opinion on the gameplay? Is it a really good turn-based game now, or going to be, or never will be?

My impressions so far:
1) if you expect a game with great emphasis on magic, skip Elemental.
2) if you want depth, look elsewhere. Elemental will probably be as fun as Galciv 2 was after a few patches, but its depth (like Galciv2) is skin-deep.
3) Elemental is NOT a Master of Magic "spiritual sucessor", NOR an "Age of Wonders killer". It's basically Galciv 2 in a fantasy setting, so adjust your expectations accordingly.
In short, if you liked Galactic Civilizations 2, and you always wondered what it would be in fantasy setting, chances are you'll like Elemental once the rough parts are patched out.
Have you guys seen this review of the book of the game (with exclusive DLC codes!), written by Brad Wardell himself? To be fair, Brad is not a professional writer, but my god those sentences are so painful to read.
He yanked the sword out of the first one’s throat and swung it at a second, the nearest one to him, gouging it in the shoulder, and the thing screamed, and slashed at Calis’s blade ineffectually, and Calis slashed again, and caught the creature in the face, and blood gushed, and it screamed a second time, and stumbled, but that was all Calis saw.

It sounds like an early draft, though I doubt it will be patched anytime soon. :P
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Catshade: It sounds like an early draft, though I doubt it will be patched anytime soon. :P

I lol'd IRL. Rep +1.
The dress is actually my favorite character in the book. A few short pages later she is accosted by bad guys and they have a conversation about the dress. Her thoughts reveal to us the backstory and political importance of the dress. After she is rescued from the bad guys by the clever orphan boy she has a crush on and a handsome knight, she flings herself into her father’s arms while sobbing and he stops to notice the dress before noticing the knife wound on her neck. That’s how badass the dress is. Later in the story other dresses get introduced. The author even makes the mistake of trying to make them more attractive than the dress.

I so want the book now. How many fantasy fiction books do we have with Dress Of Awesomeness +3.
Post edited August 29, 2010 by lowyhong
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Catshade: Have you guys seen this review of the book of the game (with exclusive DLC codes!), written by Brad Wardell himself? To be fair, Brad is not a professional writer, but my god those sentences are so painful to read.
He yanked the sword out of the first one’s throat and swung it at a second, the nearest one to him, gouging it in the shoulder, and the thing screamed, and slashed at Calis’s blade ineffectually, and Calis slashed again, and caught the creature in the face, and blood gushed, and it screamed a second time, and stumbled, but that was all Calis saw.

It sounds like an early draft, though I doubt it will be patched anytime soon. :P

There was a fire-sale on commas in Michigan?
Post edited August 29, 2010 by Lobsang1979