I probably wouldn't buy any arcade titles because of DRM though. Odd you support that and I don't... haha.

As for exclusives yeah, Uncharted 1-3, God of War 3, Killzone 2-3, Infamous 1-2, Ratcher and Clank, the best version of Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy Vs. 13, Disgaes or whatever, Valkyria Chronicles, Heavenly Sword and probably many more. Plus there is a Rockstar game coming called The Agent I think which is supposed to be PS3 exclusive.

On Xbox there's the Halo games and Fable 2 pretty much.

I don't see how DRM (if there is any) would be a problem with XBLA or Indie Games. If you really want to play these games on another console you can recover your account, then download the game, and play it on another console. You just can't play it on more than one console at a time, which is reasonable.

I don't want to get into a long debate about it but it's certainly DRM, and DRM on a closed system which make it hard or even impossible to circumvent. When Xbox Live on the 360 is shut down like it was for the original Xbox you have zero guarantee of future access to that content should your system die or HDD become corrupted.

People complain about PC DRM when all you might need to do someday is download a file which removes it. Xbox Live DRM is much more significant.

You can always back up files for games on a hard drive if anything happens to your regular hard drive, and it wouldn't even be very hard considering saved games take up hardly any space. I have yet to have anything corrupted on my system so I don't think that would at all be a problem for the downloaded games you have installed on your machine. Still, I don't see what the problem is, its not like Nintendo offers support for their older consoles, or Sega for their older consoles, or Sony.

I mean maybe I'm just an idealist cus stuff doesn't crap out on me like everybody elses stuff does, I never even had a save file corrupted while playing Fallout New Vegas on my 360.

Actually you're partially mistaken. Arcade games are playable offline, whilst only indie games aren't.

I'm interested in Nintendo's new console, but apart from that, eh, wake me up when we get to Gamescom.

Not sure what that has to do with anything I said. I never said they can't be played offline. You can play offline on the home machine for your account, but that won't help you when the entire system is offline though and your system breaks. Then you have no way of activating the games on a new system.

It's very simple: when you buy a game on XBLA you are completely dependent on Microsoft allowing you to keep having access to it. I do not accept that and will not pay money for that, same with PSN and anything else. On the Wii every game is tied to your system so when your Wii eventually breaks you are screwed, unless Nintendo is still offering Wii service and support.

Anyway, like I said I do not want to get into a long debate about it. PC game DRM is completely insignificant and irrelevant, so I do not factor it into buying decisions. Console online DRM is very significant and very relevant, so I don't support it. Same goes for when console systems eventually go to a Steam model and have you activate retail products.

Then Explain to me why I couldn't play any of my Arcade titles when Microsoft messed up and wouldn't let me sign in.

I think you're overestimating the difficulty of hacking an XBox 360, hacking one undetectably is hard, which is why people who like Live generally don't. That SOB has been cracked for ages. I haven't looked but I bet you can load the entire Live Arcade library on a cracked 360 without much trouble.

I understand your reservations, it is of course DRM. It's actually more lax than pure activation or Steam type DRMs, though. If you're hardware goes and somehow Live is gone and you can't obtain the content, well then I'll either be playing a "free" PC version or if Live is no longer around I can always grab another 360 and mod it to play my purchased titles. As it is, you can only lose Live games/DLC if Live no longer offers them (or goes down) AND your hardware fails. This is more than just "Valve banned me from Steam/turned off Steam".
Because you bought them on a different XBox 360, you can transfer licenses at MS's website to your new box. It takes maybe 2 minutes.

EDIT: Link to show you how http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Support/LicenseMigration/Home

You are honestly saying that modding hardware is easier than just downloading a file if Valve ever close or ban me? Downloading a file is easy, my entire acceptance of PC DRM is based on how easy it is. Modding hardware is not easy.

You're assuming there's no software hacks and/or won't be. I think fail0verflow should have dismissed reservations about this kind of thing. Sure, one day they'll come up with something that's actually semi-secure, this console generation just isn't it.

Also, I will say, installing a modchip once may actually be easier than hunting down dozens of individual "liberation files". When you get right down to it, it's just a computer, only mods that require actual soldering are in any way difficult.

Also, you'll probably have the horsepower to emulate an XBox 360 within about 2 years, that stuff is getting pretty old.

I never said it was impossible, I said it was more difficult. In any case I thought your stand against DRM was a principle thing. If you're planning to circumvent it on consoles should you ever lose access then why not do the same on the PC? You bitch at me for buying PC games with DRM but then you go and buy DRM'd games on the Xbox because you can mod your hardware?

I is confused.

No I buy on XBox 360 because I never have to ask permission to play my games. I'm not against all forms of DRM, but activation I have a serious issue with. If I can keep my 360 running 20 years from now (which is unlikely, but I do have a working NES) it will still play those games even if MS doesn't exist anymore.

I know buying DLC or Arcade titles is a double standard of sorts, but there's no activation and even if my Live account gets banned I can still play my games/DLC. Disc based games are even better, there's absolutely no DRM on DLC discs (as in you could load the same disc's DLC on 100 different XBox 360s) and the main game discs have less DRM than your average PC title (what a role reversal that is!).

And as much as I wish it were different, console gaming is better these days (for some definitions of better). There's great account management, I have a family account with my daughter on it giving me massive parental controls, there's a playable demo for every Arcade title, no exceptions, I can pop a random disc in and be playing in 5 seconds or less, or boot an Arcade title up. There's so many co-op games it's really great for playing with my kid and we can both see what we'll be getting before we invest in them. The sales are really pretty decent, usually 50% off or better, even on pretty new stuff. Not to mention all the extra crap that comes with my XBox 360 plus Live account (Last.fm, Zune Pass, Netflix, etc.).

I remember a day when PC gaming was better, you got a better picture, you got better textures, the DRM was less intrusive, you got free map packs, unofficial mods didn't get sued out of existence, you could run local LAN games and spawn copies for your friends, etc. That stuff is pretty much gone now. Consoles didn't kill PC gaming, PC gaming killed itself, the players by not demanding better of the publishers and the publishers by being even greedier on PC than they are on console (fwiw, the console manufacturers hold a lot of the cards and keep the publishers in line a bit).

Eh, end diatribe.

Uh, they do activate. You have a license that activates on the machine when you purchase and download, the same as Steam. Also the same as Steam it works offline after that, but to reinstall or download again you need to activate again. It's actually worse than Steam in that you can only play online on other machines, where as with Steam once activated you can play offline anywhere.

If your 360 works forever you will not need access to Microsoft servers again, sure, but the same can be said of your PC with a Steam game. If you're against the principle of asking permission to play the games you buy then you should be against XBLA as well because it is the same exact thing. Also patches and DLC are the same, despite the discs themselves being DRM free. Since MS has shown they will shut down Live access on old consoles how are you going to patch New Vegas in 20 years? The game is pretty much unplayable without patching, making it effectively DRM'd.

On the PC none of this is an issue, if Steam ever shuts down the community will make a quick and painless way to play the games anyway. Hell, they have already. If you're willing to break your principles on consoles I don't see why you stick to them on the PC.

Oh, now I do.

Which system you prefer is pretty irrelevant to my point, which is that you accept DRM on consoles and not on the PC (despite PC DRM being more irrelevant). You prefer console gaming now, and that's your choice of course. I obviously disagree. Either way, not sure what that has to do with accepting DRM on principles. You either do or you don't.