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sethsez: Edit 2: hedwards, I will admit that the laundry list was pretty amusing. It seems that the more hidden a joke is, the better it is. Which makes me wonder why they insisted on shoving all their worst material right up in front.
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hedwards: I guess it's a matter of perspective, most of the things I'm laughing at are pretty subtle. I think that people who weren't brought up on Benny Hill and don't like Futurama, or similar referential humor are likely at a disadvantage. Most of the jokes seem to require knowledge of a wide variety of pop culture. Some of them like the Holsome twins carrying duke around in their purse aren't particularly subtle, in that you don't need to know who Paris Hilton is to get it.
Or the Olsen twins. ;)

But for me, saying it's like Futurama isn't exactly accurate. I'd say it's closer to Family Guy, or the ____ Movie series. In Futurama, pop culture references are usually part of a joke. In Family Guy or the ____ Movies, the reference is the joke. Again I go back to the Commando line, where it makes absolutely no sense in context and only "works" if you know Commando. I recognize the line, but nothing's being done with it. The joke could be that Duke is too dumb to understand the already-stupid movies he quotes from, but somehow I doubt that's what Broussard was going for.

Likewise, Benny Hill was dumb as dirt but had damn good timing and execution. Most of the time in Duke Nukem I find the timing to be extremely lacking, mostly because they didn't really have the resources to polish things or tighten scenes up.

Again, I get what they were going for, I just think they missed the mark by a mile. Duke's referential humor might have been aiming for Futurama but it hit Family Guy, just like Disaster Movie might have been aiming for Naked Gun and hit Spy Hard. And in terms of crude humor I find it to be less Blazing Saddles fart scene and more Nutty Professor fart scene.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by sethsez
Thinking about it, I'd like to see a Duke game designed by People Can Fly and written by Suda 51. I don't think there's any one team that can recapture what DN3D managed to do today, but with those two together? I could totally see it.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by sethsez
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sethsez: Thinking about it, I'd like to see a Duke game designed by People Can Fly and written by Suda 51. I don't think there's any one team that can recapture what DN3D managed to do today, but with those two together? I could totally see it.
Well, I haven't played a Suda 51 game, but I'm not certain People Can Fly would make a Duke game very well (though, to be fair, I haven't played Bulletstorm yet). It doesn't really seem their style.
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sethsez: Thinking about it, I'd like to see a Duke game designed by People Can Fly and written by Suda 51. I don't think there's any one team that can recapture what DN3D managed to do today, but with those two together? I could totally see it.
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doccarnby: Well, I haven't played a Suda 51 game, but I'm not certain People Can Fly would make a Duke game very well (though, to be fair, I haven't played Bulletstorm yet). It doesn't really seem their style.
Bulletstorm is essentially Duke Nukem Forever done right. By that I don't mean that it's a follow-up to DN3D (it definitely isn't), I mean it's a modern shooter with constant action, crude humor and big setpieces. In terms of design Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever are damn near identical (same weapon system, same health system, same reliance on constant new gimmicks), but in terms of execution they're worlds apart... Bulletstorm is essentially the game Duke Nukem Forever is trying so very hard to be. Hell, Bulletstorm even had a boot for a melee attack and Duke Nukem Forever didn't. How messed up is that?

As for Suda 51, the guy basically gets off on cheesy movie references and vulgar, misogynist anti-heroes, but he understands the appeal of those things and knows how to subvert them without discrediting them.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by sethsez
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sethsez: Bulletstorm is essentially Duke Nukem Forever done right. By that I don't mean that it's a follow-up to DN3D (it definitely isn't), I mean it's a modern shooter with constant action, crude humor and big setpieces. In terms of design Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever are damn near identical (same weapon system, same health system, same reliance on constant new gimmicks), but in terms of execution they're worlds apart... Bulletstorm is essentially the game Duke Nukem Forever is trying so very hard to be. Hell, Bulletstorm even had a boot for a melee attack and Duke Nukem Forever didn't. How messed up is that?
Right, but with PCF, their style of action is more... high-flying? I guess? More glossy post-80's style action, whereas Duke games, if filmed, wouldn't look too out of place in some cheap-ass '80's action movie. I don't think a PCF game would feel the same if it wasn't like they were.

Edit: And yes, DNF not having a quick kick button is the only gripe I've had having played the demo a few times and played the 30 minute trial on OnLive.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by doccarnby
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sethsez: Bulletstorm is essentially Duke Nukem Forever done right. By that I don't mean that it's a follow-up to DN3D (it definitely isn't), I mean it's a modern shooter with constant action, crude humor and big setpieces. In terms of design Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever are damn near identical (same weapon system, same health system, same reliance on constant new gimmicks), but in terms of execution they're worlds apart... Bulletstorm is essentially the game Duke Nukem Forever is trying so very hard to be. Hell, Bulletstorm even had a boot for a melee attack and Duke Nukem Forever didn't. How messed up is that?
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doccarnby: Right, but with PCF, their style of action is more... high-flying? I guess? More glossy post-80's style action, whereas Duke games, if filmed, wouldn't look too out of place in some cheap-ass '80's action movie. I don't think a PCF game would feel the same if it wasn't like they were.

Edit: And yes, DNF not having a quick kick button is the only gripe I've had having played the demo a few times and played the 30 minute trial on OnLive.
Well, they already toned it down from Painkiller to Bulletstorm so I think they'd be able to adapt to Duke just fine. And any game that rewards you for shooting an enemy in the nuts seems like prime resume material for a Duke game to me.

Honestly, if DNF interests you I think you owe it to yourself to at least give the Bulletstorm demo a try. It's certainly much closer to DNF than it is to Painkiller.
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doccarnby: Right, but with PCF, their style of action is more... high-flying? I guess? More glossy post-80's style action, whereas Duke games, if filmed, wouldn't look too out of place in some cheap-ass '80's action movie. I don't think a PCF game would feel the same if it wasn't like they were.

Edit: And yes, DNF not having a quick kick button is the only gripe I've had having played the demo a few times and played the 30 minute trial on OnLive.
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sethsez: Well, they already toned it down from Painkiller to Bulletstorm so I think they'd be able to adapt to Duke just fine. And any game that rewards you for shooting an enemy in the nuts seems like prime resume material for a Duke game to me.

Honestly, if DNF interests you I think you owe it to yourself to at least give the Bulletstorm demo a try. It's certainly much closer to DNF than it is to Painkiller.
My computer can't run it. I had to play the demo on my aunt's computer. Wait. The obviousness of the solution literally hurts. I'll be back in a moment.
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hedwards: The more I play, the more obvious it is that it's not for everybody. I remember when I saw Duke's laundry list LOLing immediately when I saw it. 1 red tank top, 1 pair blue jeans, 1 pair tighty whities and 2 tube socks for stuffing the aforementioned tighty whities.
I laughed at that as well. I also chuckle almost every time I star the game and hear him saying "lookin' good" at the company credits. I just dig the character, I dig the parody. Obviously you're right though, it's not for everyone.

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sethsez: Just because I don't find a joke funny doesn't mean I don't get it.
And just because you insist you get it doesn't mean you do. There's no real way to "prove it" so we should just drop it. My only point was that it's obvious some reviewers didn't get it when they say things like "why is using the word babe?" Missing the point that badly plus the technical issues of the Xbox version accounts for many of the insanely low review scores.
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StingingVelvet: My only point was that it's obvious some reviewers didn't get it when they say things like "why is using the word babe?"
Maybe they'd have an easier time getting the point that it's an 80s action parody if the game did a better job of being an 80s action parody.
Just tried the Bulletstorm demo, and I gotta say, I enjoyed it, but I never really got a feeling that it was anything like Duke. I stand by my statement earlier about its style. They could probably write Duke pretty well though.

I did, however, spend the demo thinking to myself, "I totally shot that dude in the dick! I should get points for that!"
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doccarnby: Just tried the Bulletstorm demo, and I gotta say, I enjoyed it, but I never really got a feeling that it was anything like Duke. I stand by my statement earlier about its style. They could probably write Duke pretty well though.

I did, however, spend the demo thinking to myself, "I totally shot that dude in the dick! I should get points for that!"
Like I said, if they could slow it down and beef it up a bit more, they'd have it. Not DN3D, mind you, but DNF. It does 95% of what DNF tries to do, and all of that it does better. I wouldn't pick them to make a modern version of DN3D, but honestly I don't think there's anyone out there who can do that these days.

As for the style, well, that's where Suda would come in.
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sethsez: Like I said, if they could slow it down and beef it up a bit more, they'd have it.
But fast and lithe is People Can Fly's style. If you slow it down and beef it up, why not ship it off to somebody who actually does slow and beefy? Monolith might be a better choice.
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doccarnby: Right, but with PCF, their style of action is more... high-flying? I guess? More glossy post-80's style action, whereas Duke games, if filmed, wouldn't look too out of place in some cheap-ass '80's action movie. I don't think a PCF game would feel the same if it wasn't like they were.

Edit: And yes, DNF not having a quick kick button is the only gripe I've had having played the demo a few times and played the 30 minute trial on OnLive.
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sethsez: Well, they already toned it down from Painkiller to Bulletstorm so I think they'd be able to adapt to Duke just fine. And any game that rewards you for shooting an enemy in the nuts seems like prime resume material for a Duke game to me.

Honestly, if DNF interests you I think you owe it to yourself to at least give the Bulletstorm demo a try. It's certainly much closer to DNF than it is to Painkiller.
I wouldn't say Bulletstorm is anything like Duke Forever. The gameplay is very different from DNF as well as Duke 3D, and reminded me more of Tony Hawk meets Unreal than anything.

Personally, I'd recommend Prey to those who like Duke (it was also originally developed by 3DRealms). Often forgotten in these sort of discussions, it has a similar level of interactivity to Duke3D and DNF and is all about the action, with a great amount of innovation and interactivity in there as well.

I'm sure most of you have played it already, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway just in case.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by ale81drummer
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sethsez: Like I said, if they could slow it down and beef it up a bit more, they'd have it.
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doccarnby: But fast and lithe is People Can Fly's style. If you slow it down and beef it up, why not ship it off to somebody who actually does slow and beefy? Monolith might be a better choice.
Mostly because Monolith haven't made a good game in quite some time.

Also, Duke is only slow in DNF compared to DN3D. Compared to most other modern games he's a speed demon, especially when sprinting. At the end of the day Duke has never been much of a bullet sponge, he's always been more about avoiding getting hit than absorbing a lot of damage, so I don't think PCF's style would clash much. I mean, hell, in DN3D he ran like the wind, jumped, crouched, and even had a jetpack. He was the most mobile FPS character yet, which is part of what made the game such a success.
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sethsez: Well, they already toned it down from Painkiller to Bulletstorm so I think they'd be able to adapt to Duke just fine. And any game that rewards you for shooting an enemy in the nuts seems like prime resume material for a Duke game to me.

Honestly, if DNF interests you I think you owe it to yourself to at least give the Bulletstorm demo a try. It's certainly much closer to DNF than it is to Painkiller.
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ale81drummer: I wouldn't say Bulletstorm is anything like Duke Forever. The gameplay is very different from DNF as well as Duke 3D, and reminded me more of Tony Hawk meets Unreal than anything.

Personally, I'd recommend Prey to those who like Duke (it was also originally developed by 3DRealms). Often forgotten in these sort of discussions, it has a similar level of interactivity to Duke3D and DNF and is all about the action, with a great amount of innovation and interactivity in there as well.

I'm sure most of you have played it already, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway just in case.
I still think Bulletstorm feels like what DNF was going for, but yeah, Prey seems like another approach to the same thing. Incredible ease aside, it did capture some of that old 3D Realms magic at points, and the connections between it and The Hive are pretty obvious.

Still feels a bit too slow and cramped for Duke, though.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by sethsez
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sethsez: Mostly because Monolith haven't made a good game in quite some time.
Woah, woah, woah. What? The only one of their games I wouldn't give a 4 out of 5 to is Shogo, and I still enjoyed that quite a bit.

And as for the rest, I guess I can see where you're coming from, I just still don't see PCF making a good Duke game.
Post edited June 17, 2011 by doccarnby