Greetings.

The animated version of Frank Millers graphical novel The Dark Knight Returns is still the most awesome and best.
I feel that is sad.

Feel free to disagree and if so be prepared for unfounded facts and statements from me probably with a day or so in between.

Regards (Firebird/Batman signal sorta avatar.) Tarm

I find all "super hero" films and media to be just ridiculous. I don't care how hard Nolan tried to make Batman feel gritty and realistic, it was still a man dressing up as a bat and that is inherently dumb. The "Super Hero" fascination that Americans and others have is just stupid, probably the stupidest thing Western culture has come up with in the last century, worse than rap music even.

I dunno, I know many people like Marvel comics and stuff, but I can't take any of it seriously. I think even Japanese shounen manga is preferable because at least they are aren't characters running around in spandex uniforms and calling themselves things like "Spiderman" or "Batman".

Super heroes are popular because of many things and they might often be ridiculous but I'd hardly call them stupid. If I did I'd be calling a big part of the human psyche stupid. King Arthur and similar myths are the basis for our current super heroes popularity. Humans need larger than life persons in their lives be they real or current. Been so since we became what we now call humans and I dare to say it's been that way since living things have had any imagination. That last thought is a guess. Apparently. :P

But that's not the topic.

Edit: Crosmando go read Lone Wolf and Cub. Now that's a real life imaginary super hero I think you might find interesting.

TaNa na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na... BATMAN!.. thats all we need

DC in general seems to do a lot better in it's animated ventures than it's live action ones. In terms of movies yeah, about the only Batman movies that compete with the recent Miller one would be other animated movies. I'd probably go with something like return of the joker or one of the justice league movies that feature him prominently, but that's mainly because I don't much like Frank Millers work.

"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb"

But seriously guys. No thoughts about how the Batman films have developed?

Batman beyond return of the joker, the way he taunts joker and laughs back at joker makes it one of the most memorable batman moments

I'm not saying "Hero myths" are stupid, I'm saying traditional American comic book-style "Superheroes" are stupid. King Arthur was a "myth" but he was a political figure still, the first true King of the Britons or whatever, it's historical while this recent comic-style superhero is fairly recent. You can make a story about a character with supernatural/fantastic powers and it can be done fine, but WHY do they need to make stories adapted from awful Marvel and DC comics, where superheroes wear the stupid spandex uniforms and give themselves ridiculous names. X-Men is another example of how the comic mentality screws things up, the idea of certain humans getting mutant genes and getting special powers is fine, it becomes stupid when they start putting on tight plastic uniforms and give themselves names like "Wolverine". The only reason it's done is to pay respect to the lame source material.

I find myself agreeing with Crosmando. This is scary. I can almost hear the space-time continuum tearing at its seams.
.
.
. They started silly and violent, and they remained silly and violent.

I gave the new series a chance because I admire Nolan's "Memento" (probably one of the best movies I've seen this decade), and I have high respect for the skill with which he broke a complex setting down for the silver screen in "Inception".

But Batman? Just a violent teenage-boy's-wannabe jerk, put into a setting that is apparently designed to justify his ruthless behavior (but doesn't). I never understood why he's apparently so popular in the US.

I agree. I only watch the Batman movies for the villains. I believe, this Youtube video says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfgtEjjQnHQ

What the hell? No real Batman and Frank Miller nerds here? I'm shocked!

Get back to you answering your posts after my drunkenes have subsided sufficiently. In a more intelligent manner. In a on topic way. :D

Nolan Batman movies were good. I enjoyed Ledger as the Joker, too bad its one of his last roles. Tim Burton's Batman films were really great too, Keaton and Nicholson were amazing. The sequel wasn't that good unfortunately. However still way better than when Joel Schumacer butchered them and send Batman to the grave for what almost a decade.

I'm a bit worried with Affleck as the new Batman, although I'll give it a chance and see how it goes.

I agree that larger-than-life people are a fixture in most cultures, and that they fulfill a fundamental role in many cultures.

However, I would also like to point out that hardly any other culture, historical or present, has larger-then-life figures that are as silly and primitive as "superheroes". If you look at (for example) Greek, Norse, or Indian mythology, you find rich sets of characters, each with their own motivations. Their sagas often deal with the interrelations of these personalities, or how certain events changed them.

Superheroes, however, are extremely primitive. They are built on a weird concept that people can be purely "good" or "evil", and the solution to any problem is that the "good" characters kill or incapacitate the "evil" ones, for which extreme violence is often seen as justified because the opponents are "evil".

Now look at the mythological larger-than-life personalities from other cultures. You mentioned the Arthur saga - is Lancelot "good" or "evil"? He is the most valiant knight of the kingdom, but his forbidden love to the Queen also brings the kingdom down in the end. He's neither good or evil, he's a human being with all the strengths and weaknesses that this entails - and which enable interesting stories to be told about him.

Likewise, is Prometheus good or evil? Hera? Kali? Loki? Hagen? Arguably, Hagen of Tronje is one of the most interesting Nibelung characters precisely because he has a complex set of motivations.

Unfortunately, US culture has boiled the concept of larger-than-life figures down to the extremely primitive, and ultimately boring, concept of supergood superheroes battling superbad supervillains. It's quite sad when you consider how rich and varied Norse or Greek culture was centuries ago.

I don't think -anybody- actually takes it seriously. People are enthusiastic about superheroes, sure, but I don't think I've met many who actually take them all that seriously and don't realize that they're just a massive power fantasy. Because he's badass!

Oh... That didn't help, did it? Oh all right, let me elaborate. First of all, Batman is, in his essence, and anti-hero. His only real motivation is revenge, and that can hardly be called very noble. And most respectable Batman fiction makes that quite obvious, including the brilliant animated series which are very much aimed at younger audience.

The reason why Batman often enough works better than Superman or many others is that most other heroes just don't have any motivation whatsoever. In fact, most superheroes just lack as much as a smidge of their own, unique personality. Batman (at least in his modern iterations) has been built in a way that he's a deeply scarred person with his own share of personality flaws, which basically drove him insane, regardless of how he's capable of justifying his actions. Even better - the most popular Batman villians are based on him and parts of his personality, which is why they work. Often enough it's been pointed out that there's very little difference between a lunatic in batsuit and lunatic dressed up as a clown. And the most popular Batman stories show just how close he is to his breaking point.

So yeah, that. I'm sure that in his very essence, Batman works because he's a violent teenage-boy's-wannabe jerk. But so is vast majority of modern 'super' heroes. What elevates him above the bunch is the fact that he's a violent teenage-boy's-wannabe jerk who got thought put into him beyond "Wouldn't it be cool to have a badass dressed like a bat?"