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General discussion (archive)DRM hits PS3(52 posts)(52 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 23, 2010
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Zeewolf: All consoles have DRM to begin with. When was the last time you could easily make a backup of a console game and use it without using mods or other sneaky workarounds?
copyprotection is not DRM.
If I buy a PS3 game I can play it whenever and wherever I want, aslong as I have the physical copy with me. (except the Capcom game in question).
DRM would be if I first need to verify I am allowed to play the game, even if I already have a verifiable legitimate copy.
Posted April 23, 2010
The general PSN copy protection has always bothered me; you get 5 activations and if for some reason they are not revoked properly (like your PS/3 dies - multiple times) or your account gets hacked too damn bad. Its one of the reasons I won't get a PS/3. If your are going to have DRM like this you need to have proper support for said DRM.
Posted April 23, 2010
I seem to remember reading about how GTA Prologue couldn't be installed 5 times. Wouldn't it have been better if Capcom did something like that rather than requiring an always on connection?
Posted April 23, 2010
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Sielle: I seem to remember reading about how GTA Prologue couldn't be installed 5 times. Wouldn't it have been better if Capcom did something like that rather than requiring an always on connection?

Yes/yes.
Five concurrent installs though I think it was, not total...
Posted April 23, 2010
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Krypsyn: I agree totally. However, what would you suggest been done instead? Assume that CapCom is not going to do nothing, what would your solution to their dilemma be? I don't like it, but I also can't think of a solution that makes any more sense (other than the 'do nothing' option, which I don't think is an option Capcom will accept).
I replied to your post, but it isn't directed totally at you. If anyone has another solution, please post it. I am curious what folks think would be a better solution. I just get tired of folks bitching and moaning about DRM policies, but then never coming up with any other solution other than 'do nothing'. Let's just assume that game companies are not going to sit on their hands and do nothing, for better or for worse, so what would be an acceptable DRM scheme that would actually work*?
*define 'work' as stopping piracy** for one month or more for these purposes
**define 'piracy' as any unlawful use for the purpose of this question

Have important game files remain on the disc and encrypted or something so they cant be taken off, with some sort of unique identification that isnt contained within the disc so you cant use daemon tools or something to simulate a disc being in the drive. That way it isnt punishing customers other than forcing them to insert their dvds and it prevents piracy. This about drm in general not about this game.
Post edited April 23, 2010 by Salsa_Shark
Posted April 24, 2010
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Salsa_Shark: Have important game files remain on the disc and encrypted or something so they cant be taken off, with some sort of unique identification that isnt contained within the disc so you cant use daemon tools or something to simulate a disc being in the drive. That way it isnt punishing customers other than forcing them to insert their dvds and it prevents piracy. This about drm in general not about this game.

The trouble is that the unique identification would need to be out of the hands of the consumer completely to be effective for any real length of time.. If everything is available to the end user, it means that it can be cracked fairly readily (just look at secuROM). That brings us back to having to be logged in to a server or something similar in order for the outside identifications to be delivered.
Now, perhaps I totally misunderstood what you meant. If you meant it should be a hardware deal, such that the game will only work if it is an proprietary copy in a proprietary drive of some sort, then perhaps that might work. But that starts sounding less like a PC, and more like an old style cartridge based console.
Posted April 24, 2010
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Krypsyn: Now, perhaps I totally misunderstood what you meant.

No I just don't know what I'm talking about.
Personally I'm all for the do nothing approach but i know company's don't want people getting their products for free. But the drm is usually easily defeated or extremely unfair on legitimate customers. I think piracy is just something you have to ignore. Most people i know who pirate their games aren't going to buy them just because they cant pirate them and you'll lose customers by having invasive drm.
Posted April 24, 2010
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Salsa_Shark: I think piracy is just something you have to ignore. Most people i know who pirate their games aren't going to buy them just because they cant pirate them and you'll lose customers by having invasive drm.

Not ignore -- there's many ways you can turn pirates into paying players, like free DLC and/or bonus content included in the box. If more companies (following EA, BioWare, Atlus) focused on this method instead of DRM, I think we'd all be better off.
Posted April 24, 2010
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Salsa_Shark: I think piracy is just something you have to ignore. Most people i know who pirate their games aren't going to buy them just because they cant pirate them and you'll lose customers by having invasive drm.
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chautemoc: Not ignore -- there's many ways you can turn pirates into paying players, like free DLC and/or bonus content included in the box. If more companies (following EA, BioWare, Atlus) focused on this method instead of DRM, I think we'd all be better off.

People still pirate DLC. The DLC for DA and ME 2 is available on bittorrent sites and is very easy to install (I own all the DLC i downloaded i just prefer torrents). I agree that we'd all be better off and i like what there doing but i dont think it had much effect other than good PR for the company which probably increased sales a fair bit and its more of a way to prevent second hand sales. The pirates who are going to be turned into paying players are going to be the ones that are pirating because of the drm but i think the majority just dont want to pay for the game.
Posted April 24, 2010
There is no way to stop pirating, no matter how cheap or how much free stuff you offer, people are still going to do it. Same thing with DRM, what do the companies care about our complaints? So they lose a few hundred or thousand customers big deal to someone such as Ubisoft. They'll keep on trucking and making games how they want regardless of anything we say.
Posted April 24, 2010
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CrashToOverride: There is no way to stop pirating, no matter how cheap or how much free stuff you offer, people are still going to do it. Same thing with DRM, what do the companies care about our complaints? So they lose a few hundred or thousand customers big deal to someone such as Ubisoft. They'll keep on trucking and making games how they want regardless of anything we say.

I disagree with that number. I dare say most people wouldn't care about the drm or wouldn't even know until they bought. Being realistic as much as i hate it it really is only a small inconvenience for most people. They wouldn't keep doing it if it noticeably decreased sales
Posted April 24, 2010
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Sielle: I seem to remember reading about how GTA Prologue couldn't be installed 5 times. Wouldn't it have been better if Capcom did something like that rather than requiring an always on connection?

They don't actually specify an always on connection, to me it sounds like it'd just refuse to load without the PSN being active and refuse any multiple loads for pretty sensible reasons.
As much as the license transfer can be a bitch, the 360 has what I think is a better system, tied to both gamertag and console ID and either of those tokens is enough to let you play the game
Posted April 24, 2010
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Zeewolf: All consoles have DRM to begin with. When was the last time you could easily make a backup of a console game and use it without using mods or other sneaky workarounds?
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Npl: copyprotection is not DRM.

Yes it is. It is EXACTLY what DRM is.
Quote Wikipedia: DRM technologies attempt to control use of digital media by preventing access, copying or conversion to other formats by end users.
DRM is everything from codewheels to online servers. It's everything that prevents users from being able to copy their legally bought games/movies/whatever. DRM is everything from codewheels to StarForce to Steam.
Post edited April 24, 2010 by Zeewolf
Posted April 24, 2010
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Salsa_Shark: I think piracy is just something you have to ignore. Most people i know who pirate their games aren't going to buy them just because they cant pirate them and you'll lose customers by having invasive drm.
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chautemoc: Not ignore -- there's many ways you can turn pirates into paying players, like free DLC and/or bonus content included in the box. If more companies (following EA, BioWare, Atlus) focused on this method instead of DRM, I think we'd all be better off.

That's pretty much what I have to say about this too.
It's also, in my opinion, the best way to sucker punch the parasitic used game market--which destroys far more unique sales than piracy does.
Posted April 24, 2010
Capcom have been pretty light on the PC DRM opting for the non-invasive GOO. So while it's not surprising that DRM has hit the console of the biggest DRM Meister out there, it's surprising that it's Capcom that's responsible.
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General discussion (archive)DRM hits PS3(52 posts)(52 posts)
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