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Red_Avatar: This is going to be a fairly sensitive issue but it is such a good example, I thought I should bring it up anyway:

Dragon's Crown has been getting almost exclusively positive reviews across the board. Check Metacritic and you'll see a wall of green scores ... and then two yellow ones dangling at the bottom - both written by female reviewers, both focusing mostly on the scantily clad female characters, both down-rating the games for it. Also, both comments sections are a battlefield of people disagreeing and this brings me back to a favorite topic of mine: what's the point of having someone review a game if their own views lay so wide apart from that of the majority?

Especially considering that, if the art style puts you off, you won't be needing a review to tell you - there's been plenty of trailers and teasers. Gameplay is far more crucial than big boobs jiggling. Clearly, from reading all the comments (and talking to a female friend who got me interested in the game), most people don't give a darn about it and that includes most female gamers. So why let it affect the score (besides being a crappy reviewer)?

Link : http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/dragons-crown/critic-reviews
I dislike(or hate) reviews that put down a game not because of the graphics and game play but because the graphics and game play go against the beliefs of the authors and I dislike(or hate) the people who write such "reviews", of course. In my eyes, these are not game reviews but text disguised as game reviews that allows butt hurt individuals to bitch while at the same time, try to hurt the games that have offended them. These people have no business writing reviews. Such 'reviews" should be treated like SPAM. If they want to bitch about games that they want destroyed because it made them butt hurt, they should create threads in a forum.
Post edited August 08, 2013 by langurmonkey
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roninnogitsune: You don't insult your readers, that's professionalism and something that game's Journalism needs to learn.
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HGiles: How about not disgusting the gamers who don't want cheese in their games? If a book, movie or other entertainment option includes lots and lots of cheese, it's treated and sold differently than books/movies/whatever that don't. Games still seem stuck in the young-male mindset of 'More boobies!'. If you want games to be taken more seriously, start promoting more serious and less salacious games.

Game developers need to gain professionalism and respect for gamers just as much or more than game journalists. I don't like it when a journalist sinks to the developer's level, but I don't blame them specifically for it. It's an industry-wide problem, and until there's industry-wide buy-in on making games a professional industry the problem will stay.
Games are an entertainment industry, not a journalistic one, they have a looser code of ethics and you always have the right not to buy something that offends you. Polygon is a Journalist site, their duty is to inform and there needs to be some objectivity, 100% is impossible but they need to have as high as they can get, and having your reviewer scream "GROSS" in the video review is really bad.

Vanillaware's job is to entertain, professionalism to them is providing a game that works as advertised and as bugfree as possible. You're comparing apples to Oranges.
You're right, people with dissenting opinions to you or even just different priorities shouldn't be allowed to write reviews.
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: You're right, people with dissenting opinions to you or even just different priorities shouldn't be allowed to write reviews.
There is a difference between a review and sharing your beliefs. People don't read reviews to see what other people believe in like "jiggly boobs are evil and if we don't stop this jiggly boob threat, it will take over the world and destroy women's freedom". People read reviews to find out if the game play and graphics are good. When someone asks you for a light, for example, that someone wants a light, not your life's story.
Post edited August 08, 2013 by langurmonkey
Funny, I have seen comments like "Girls in this game have huge breasts and huge, deformed hips! It's objectification of women!", but somehow I didn't see comments like "Guys in this game are huge mountains of muscles. They have muscles so big that guys have shape of carrot! It's objectification of men!"
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Aver: Funny, I have seen comments like "Girls in this game have huge breasts and huge, deformed hips! It's objectification of women!", but somehow I didn't see comments like "Guys in this game are huge mountains of muscles. They have muscles so big that guys have shape of carrot! It's objectification of men!"
Yeah and it's demeans guy's who aren't that muscular and turns the muscular men into sex objects. The game is against all males in this world!!! BURN THIS EVIL GAME!!!
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roninnogitsune: and in turn, critics are not above being criticized themselves.
Absolutely; it's totally fair game to criticize a critism. However, that's not what the original poster was talking about. He was talking about squelching or otherwise removing these opinions in their entirety. That's a completely different than counter-criticism.


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Tallima: I love metacritic because a score goes into an aggregate of other scores with text attached.
Using metacritic as a launching pad to read different reviews is a good approach. It only becomes a problem when people take the average out of context and portray it as something meaningful in and of itself. Sadly, that happens very frequently and without context it's not particularly useful information.


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Red_Avatar: it has no place in a review to slam a game so hard when it's down to taste.
A review is entirely about taste. It's a subjective exercise in rating the various aspects of a game and formulating an opinion about it. It's fine to disagree with that opinion, or to disagree about the relative importance of different aspects (art style, gameplay, story, etc) but so long as this person has played the game and is sharing an opinion about it then that is a review by definition.
People should stick to read their favourite reviewers. Don't start gathering people into reviewing reviewers ... it's a perfect example of wasted time. Reviewers are entitled to their opinion, just agree with it or not, it's just a pooint of view to help you make your mind.

TotalBiscuitissued a video about this some days ago. I tend to agree with his views.
The Elf chick is my favorite, boobs are disgusting
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Crosmando: The Elf chick is my favorite, boobs are disgusting
Hold on Crosmando! It's console game! You shouldn't say a single good thing about this! :D
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roninnogitsune: and in turn, critics are not above being criticized themselves.
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Darvin: Absolutely; it's totally fair game to criticize a critism. However, that's not what the original poster was talking about. He was talking about squelching or otherwise removing these opinions in their entirety. That's a completely different than counter-criticism.

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Tallima: I love metacritic because a score goes into an aggregate of other scores with text attached.
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Darvin: Using metacritic as a launching pad to read different reviews is a good approach. It only becomes a problem when people take the average out of context and portray it as something meaningful in and of itself. Sadly, that happens very frequently and without context it's not particularly useful information.

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Red_Avatar: it has no place in a review to slam a game so hard when it's down to taste.
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Darvin: A review is entirely about taste. It's a subjective exercise in rating the various aspects of a game and formulating an opinion about it. It's fine to disagree with that opinion, or to disagree about the relative importance of different aspects (art style, gameplay, story, etc) but so long as this person has played the game and is sharing an opinion about it then that is a review by definition.
A review shouldn't include someone's taste. A person's taste doesn't give you the information you need to determine if a game is good or not. That is the problem. That is why people nowadays have so little faith in reviews.
Post edited August 08, 2013 by langurmonkey
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Aver: Hold on Crosmando! It's console game! You shouldn't say a single good thing about this! :D
Na, I'm cool with Japanese games. I'm even fine with games like Call of Duty. My hatred is now confined to games that try and screw up my favorite genre.
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langurmonkey: A review shouldn't include someone's taste. A person's taste doesn't give you the information you need to determine if a game is good or not. That is the problem. That is why people nowadays have so little faith in reviews.
A review is nothing but taste. A review discusses things that the reviewer found positive and negative about the game and attempts to ascribe an overall value to the experience. That is subjective by its very nature, and will come down to the tastes and preferences of the reviewer. As the consumer, you should be actively determining whether you have a similar pespective to the reviewer. If you do, you may find the review very helpful. If you don't, then you won't.
Well, the Polygon review to me, seemed to speed through the guts and gameplay of the rewview to get to the bashing of the artwork and art design. The art design...honestly strikes me as a parody. Older game art (and this was usually box or game art from magazines), seemed to follow the traits found in Dragon's Crown, although Dragon's Crown simply went to more of an extreme. I'm not sure if it's purposeful, or accidental, but that's how it looks to me.

But I would have prefered to see more about the controls and gameplay then the Art design that people have been complaining about since it first got noticed. I'd be pretty disappointed if I had to rely on that review for the game.
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: You're right, people with dissenting opinions to you or even just different priorities shouldn't be allowed to write reviews.
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langurmonkey: There is a difference between a review and sharing your beliefs. People don't read reviews to see what other people believe in like "jiggly boobs are evil and if we don't stop this jiggly boob threat, it will take over the world and destroy women's freedom". People read reviews to find out if the game play and graphics are good. When someone asks you for a light, for example, that someone wants a light, not your life's story.
Reviews are sharing your beliefs.

That's the reason for reviews. If someone finds the games portrayal of women problematic, it certainly can be something that decreases their enjoyment.