I'm not sure how backers could have missed the fact that he didn't have a design, but it's possible that some did, and I'm sure there's a lesson to be learned there. In any case, there's still a very good chance that Tim Schafer will produce a quality product. It certainly looks like one so far.

That doesn't matter to what's happening now or the discussion. The way I see it, the people who are posting against DF now are mainly two types:

Most of them aren't backers, many don't think much of Kickstarter in general, and they just see it as a way to say "I told you so" (or something like that, since they mostly didn't tell us so). These people don't care much about what's really happening, and don't have anything productive to add to the discussion. They're basically trolls.

Some are backers who didn't really follow the process, didn't watch the latest episode of the documentary, and are mainly fed off what's being posted. They are generally dissatisfied because they're lacking information they can get, and sometimes partly because they had an unrealistic view of what's going to happen (such as imagining that they will get the game on the originally estimated date).

I'm not saying that there aren't genuine reasons to be upset with the situation, but I think that if the trolls went away and the dissatisfied backers watched the latest documentary episode, that would make pretty much clear the table.

No, many of the non-backers are people concerned that this is the way that game development is going to become in the long run, although I personally am of the conviction that the Kickstarter model will fall apart of its own volition on the back of fuck-ups like this. There's a reason people like me don't back crowdfunding projects.

Not to mention there have been plenty of people who have criticised Double Fine's actions, also having backed Broken Age.

And some people just don't like watching other people get screwed over, especially when a situation looks so dubious as the Double Fine Kickstarter did. Sue me - I'm a sucker for honesty. If that makes me a troll, fine. If I'm saying "I told you so", it's not because I get some bizarre sadistic pleasure out of it. It's because I'm saying "next time people say that things don't smell right, you'd do well to listen to them instead of labelling them trolls and diving in where angels fear to tread".

Ah yes, the fanboy argument of choice, quoted word for word - in other words, "we have information that you don't so anyone who dares criticise is automatically wrong". They had the $3.3 million from the Kickstarter, the money from the tip jar, the proceeds from the sales of the games (including the Humble Bundle), and whatever money later backers have donated. I'm not exactly sure what's possible to take out of context. He quite clearly said he's concerned that he doesn't have enough money to finish the project because he "designed too much game". He admitted it was his own fault. The admission is praiseworthy, but it doesn't answer the question "what now"?

Fanboys are going on about how we are "missing context". Fine, the ball is in your (collective) court. Enlighten us - tell us why Double Fine went from budgeting a $3 million game into having barely completed half of it with a release date delayed two years beyond its scheduled release.

That's actually funny thing, some peoples (not talking about you specifically) are worried that game development is going to become... what they asked for for years, and actually what game development used to be at its beginning.

For years peoples have complained about publishers having games being released unfinished/buggy, of game being cut because of budget constraints, of them (the publishers) meddling in the creative process, etc... crowd-funding do offers an alternative but like always there is a price to pay: more freedom means less control.

It you give money to a developer to make the game they want, at the speed they want, well that's good, but then on the other side you have to accept the risk of them wanting "too much" and going over budget or not being able to ever finish the game (i.e. DNF)

If anything KS somewhat puts peoples in publishers shoes, you gave 3 millions for a game, the budget is spent but the game is not yet finish, what do you do ? drop the project and lose your money, force the game to be released buggy/unfinished/abridged, or increase the budget and hope for the game to sell well enough to compensate for it ?

Filtered through a troll's brain, of course. Backers who look at the episode are likely to feel better about this. Are you somehow trying to argue that by having less information you're in a better position to judge the situation?

No, what he's saying is (among other things): Provide the information that shows a better outlook of the situation, instead of just claiming to have such information.

Why not? The game will be by far the greatest result of this KS project and the longest lasting too. I always thought the difference between backing and buying later is that only the first makes sure (as sure can be) that the game is made.

I may have also enjoyed some backers discussions about how the game should be or some nice making of videos, but they are not the main purpose for me and I didn't have much time. I guess most of the backers did the same like me.

Maybe I will watch the videos once the game is out. That can be fun too, if you compare what people said at some time, and what was there in the end.

Because Kickstarter should be used as a means to support your favourite artist, with an inherited risk of not actually getting anything worthwhile out of it. If you approach it as a platform that will get games made, you will be sorely disappointed. Oh right, most of you are :-P

No, it has to be adjusted to be fair. You cannot just hire three times as many people and keep the schedule to burn all the money - that would be inefficient. On the other hand at some point you must come to an end otherwise you run out of cash or the game is outdated (technology-wise, otherwise?) before it is even released. So the questions revolve around what is reasonable. Next year or maybe the year after next year with additional financial problems is a very clear sign of mismanagement. They leave a very bad impression as if they are unable or unwilling to produce a nice, little product within a reasonable time frame suitable for the funding they have received. But this is of course a subjective view.
But that is the support. I give money, I give advice if there is time and advice needed. You really suggest I must see the making of videos or that I must be happy with whatever is the outcome? How many KS projects would have been realized without all the backers who "just" give the money?

I really want to support DF. But only if they actually act professional and reasonable and get something done (a game) within reasonable time. You could see this also as support/help by pushing them into the right direction. Maybe it's better for them to cut now down the scope of their project a bit more but get it done earlier (or at all) or just to keep them focused on the finishing of the game.

But You know, 90k people payed, among other things of course, to have exclusive access to that info. Many of them don't care, many just care for the game obviously, some of them leak it out anyway, but that was still part of the deal. If You ask me, it's more grounds for a refund (OK, not really, I'm totally overreacting here myself, it's not a big deal especially on the interwebz, just saying, not vilifying anyone that leaks the info, OK? - actually, there's discussion on the backer forums how maybe DF should at least release the documentary or parts of it to the public) that "exclusive information" that was part of the basic tiers is no longer exclusive, than the fact that the devs are honest about being over budget and working out a solution, albeit still with a delay and risk of Early Access as the downside (which is obviously an error on their part and grounds for ridicule, but I can't say most of what I see is reasonable in that regard).

But it's obviously so much easier, cheaper and fun to throw around misinformation, misconception and overreaction around based on leaked snippets.

Now Al Lowe admits that Larry Reloaded, a few hour (based on what I've read, still haven't played it myself, can't wait) remake, was over budget:
"Games are expensive to create. We went to great lengths to stay on budget and conserve money. The whole process in the end cost roughly 1.25 million. We brought in about 750K from Kickstarter and late donations through PayPal. We had to put a lot of extra money into the game."
Retroactive pitchfork time?

All I've said is that backers should see the video. Because they can.

Edit: To clarify, I didn't mean to imply that non-backers would be happier after they watch it, or think better of the situation, because I think anyone predisposed against Kickstarter and this project won't change their mind. However backers who are worried about the game are likely to be less worried after watching it.

Okay, what additional information is on that video?




By the way, as stated earlier, I'm a backer. On the private backer forum I asked yesterday:
" What’s the projected total cost of the game?
How much money have you amassed so far (and how much is still needed) ?
How much money is still left of what you have amassed so far? "

So far no answer.

for those knobheads trying to compare wasteland 2, project eternity. and tides of numenera to broken age, unlike df , the other devs have kept backers in the loop with fairly detailed updates (especially project eternity...which seems to be the most professionally run of all the big game ones so far I've backed)...and where funds are going, what for etc.and unlike dfa there has been no hint no sign of money mismanagement (yet if ever.even if tides is at ground zero).

Now let's not decry of KS and conjure it's downfall this soon. Let's wait and see how the bigger projects will do, like Project Eternity, Torment and Divinity:OS.

Some people don't support crowd funding projects, but some certainly do, as we're seeing right now. And there are other projects besdies video games which were successful. So there's no need for a crusade (just yet :P).

As for seeing crowd funding as a way to support your favorite artist: yes and no. Of course I'd like to support their vision and help them accomplish it, but for a certain sum I also expect something in return ;) Now, it doesn't have to be on time and changes are sometimes a necessity, but they should deliver a reasonable product within a reasonable time period.

And look, I want them to finish that game as completely as possible. I REALLY don't care how long it takes, as long as the end result is perfect. I also don't take care if they release it episodically and then afterwards a GOTY edition or sumthing. hey, do you what you gotta do.

But dammit, what's the $$ status? How big is the sausage?