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Crosmando: No offense, but you talk like a self-important, pretentious little prat. Come down from that high-horse when you want to treat with the adults.
Oh, please, you're the one who's claiming that DF are incompetent and that the backers are idiots for supporting them. At the same time, you are basing your claims on assumptions and have actually no idea what's going on. No offense, but try slinging less shit around and maybe you won't get hit with any.
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Mrstarker: Oh, please, you're the one who's claiming that DF are incompetent and that the backers are idiots for supporting them. At the same time, you are basing your claims on assumptions and have actually no idea what's going on. No offense, but try slinging less shit around and maybe you won't get hit with any.
They are incompetent, they got funded by 800% on Kickstarter and could barely make half a game. What does that mean, that they'd need to be funded to the tune of 1600% to ship a complete a game on release day?
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Crosmando: Well, I want it to succeed too, I haven't liked any DF game I've played but I thought Grim Fardango had some of the best writing and story design I've ever seen in an adventure game. But if a project can be funded on Kickstarter to the tune of 800% and only make half the game, something is wrong with that company.
Sorry but you want an grim fandango size game for the 2.2 mil they got from kickstarter then I don't think you know how much work that takes. Grim fandango took 4 years and cost about 3 mil before inflation I thought I read somewhere that was 4.5 to 5 mil current day costs.
I'm sure they could finish of a game for that 2 mil but you will have far less then you are getting now tim didn't want to reduce his vision to stay within the kickstarter money so they are self funding it and making it better sorry but what is bad about that.
Post edited July 04, 2013 by nulian
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nulian: Sorry but you want an grim fandango size game for the 2.2 mil they got from kickstarter then I don't think you know how much work that takes. Grim fandango took 4 years and cost about 3 mil before inflation I thought I read somewhere that was 4.5 to 5 mil current day costs.
I wasn't talking about GF in regards to Broken Age, just saying that I liked the writing. I wasn't expecting it to be as big as GF.
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Crosmando: They are incompetent, they got funded by 800% on Kickstarter and could barely make half a game. What does that mean, that they'd need to be funded to the tune of 1600% to ship a complete a game on release day?
They are not making the 300k game. They are making a bigger game. Did you really expect them do make the 300k game and just pocket the rest of the money?

And what's wrong with making a bigger game exactly? It's not like they are asking their backers to fund the rest of the development, they are raising the money on their own, from Brütal Legend sales and other sources.
What I cannot figure out is why there are so many rabid DF people that will blindly support them even though it looks like the group have no idea how to properly manager there company or finances. Or work in a timely manner.

Sure the group will probably make a decent game, it will probably eventually get finished in a couple of years...but wtf...how did they manage to screw up so much? I have to wonder about that groups time management skills.

I looked at the history of just the DF games:

2005 Psychonauts
2009 Brütal Legend
2010 Costume Quest
2011 Stacking
2011 Iron Brigade
2011 Sesame Street: Once Upon a Monster
2012 Double Fine Happy Action Theater
2012 Middle Manager of Justice
2012 Amnesia Fortnight 2012
2012 Kinect Party
2013 The Cave

Now the majority of their earlier games with publishers always had money issues and other issues through development. The Cave had Ron Gilbert on board....so...looking at the list....how the heck do they get so many free passes for mistakes they are making now....that they also made while working on their earlier games. Granted, I know Tim was with LucasArts...but hes not with them now and this is his company so we are going off of his history as the manager here...not with the prodding of LucasArts and the help of other talented individuals that were part of his old LucasArts days.
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Mrstarker: They are not making the 300k game. They are making a bigger game. Did you really expect them do make the 300k game and just pocket the rest of the money?

And what's wrong with making a bigger game exactly? It's not like they are asking their backers to fund the rest of the development, they are raising the money on their own, from Brütal Legend sales and other sources.
That's the issue, really. Did they need to bring in the famous Peter Chan to do concept art? Did they need to score live music for the game?

So yes, it is incompetence that they let the scope of the game bloat from indie project to AAA+ proportions and then acted surprised when they ran out of money.
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Mrstarker: They are not making the 300k game. They are making a bigger game. Did you really expect them do make the 300k game and just pocket the rest of the money?

And what's wrong with making a bigger game exactly? It's not like they are asking their backers to fund the rest of the development, they are raising the money on their own, from Brütal Legend sales and other sources.
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Crosmando: That's the issue, really. Did they need to bring in the famous Peter Chan to do concept art? Did they need to score live music for the game?

So yes, it is incompetence that they let the scope of the game bloat from indie project to AAA+ proportions and then acted surprised when they ran out of money.
They HAVEN'T run out of money.
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nulian:
And GF was one of the reasons LucasArts got out of adventure games=( Also KS money versus publisher money is a bit different. The costs involved in LA would involve a lot more overhead and bs costs....whereas they probably had less money to make GF in the long run than what they have now since Tim should have a lot less overhead costs except for the initial fees and physical goods.
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Kristian: They HAVEN'T run out of money.
But they don't have enough to finish it.
Also....look at Brutal Legend, "supposedly" Activision put in 15+ million, and Tim still needed even more money on top of that...yet that game was finished in two years for the 360....and involved law suits and crap...It was still finished quicker, and involved actors and artists, and yet they can not get this point and click adventure game out in a timely manner? I am sure there is more to the story, maybe some writers block=P A years worth...

Double Fine is asking for more money.
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Mrstarker: Wrong. They are financing the rest of the budget from their own money.
Quote from Eurogamer: "He intends to sell the first half of the game on Steam Early Access next year and use the money it makes to fund development of the second half."

Certainly doesn't sound like they're using their own money to finance the rest of the budget. Rather, they're selling an alpha of the game on Steam and using the funds from that to finance it.

Ergo, they're asking for more money.


Double Fine are lazy, greedy, [insert adjective here].
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Mrstarker: Wrong. Anyone who has seen the documentary knows that they are hard-working people and wanting to make a better game does not make you greedy.

The project was mismanaged.
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Mrstarker: This one's not entirely wrong, actually. They have made mistakes, as people who watch the documentary know. But you know what, part of managing projects is dealing with stuff like this.
Lazy? Greedy? Probably not. But certainly sloppy and chaotic.


The game has failed.
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Mrstarker: Wrong. The game isn't even out yet. This one is most baffling to me, personally.
"Failed" does put a rather strong slant on it, but it does put a big question mark over what will happen if DF are unable to raise the additional funds it needs to complete the second half. Given that we've already ascertained that DF is reliant on this Steam Early Access income, it's very possible that they will not be able to finance the completion of the second part.

Put it this way - it might not have 'failed', but its chances of success have just dropped dramatically.


We are getting half a game.
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Mrstarker: Wrong. You are getting twice the game with no additional effort from your part, half of it early, if you want, and it looks absolutely amazing from what I've seen of it.
Backers might be getting half a game - again, contingent on whether DF can raise the necessary funds to finance the second half. Even Tim himself refers to "cutting the game in half".

What they are not getting is '"twice the game" - I'm sorry, but that's just pandering bullshit.

Personally, I think it's more likely that a publisher will eventually step in to bail Double Fine out given the interest surrounding this title.
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Crosmando: That's the issue, really. Did they need to bring in the famous Peter Chan to do concept art? Did they need to score live music for the game?

So yes, it is incompetence that they let the scope of the game bloat from indie project to AAA+ proportions and then acted surprised when they ran out of money.
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Kristian: They HAVEN'T run out of money.
Technically they have if they had grandoise plans, and suddenly tell everyone they cant achieve what they planned and have to cut back/extend delivery time. Overbudget pretty much same thing ;).
I wonder if the game would have been out on time if they had secured the $400,000 they originally wanted from a publisher instead ....
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Kristian: They HAVEN'T run out of money.
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Crosmando: But they don't have enough to finish it.
Actually in the documentary they said they have mostly enough but it could get tight with money if they have nothing to release till april/may so its better financially for them to release a part of the game earlier that will be in release state already.
Stop reading the bad news posts that just stole the info from the backer only forum without reading up on any of the background information.
Also Peter Chan is a personal friend of tim Schafer he works on almost all of their projects.
Post edited July 04, 2013 by nulian