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General discussion (archive)Double Fine EPIC FAIL at budget management(570 posts)(570 posts)
(570 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 02, 2013
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Crosmando: Well they are the ones who started the Kickstarter craze, I just hope they aren't the ones to end it too.
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Elmofongo: Or perhaps not trust big names on Kickstarter, heck most people who donated are people who grew up with Psychonauts and Brutal Legend.

Speaking of big names lets hope the samething will not happen to Obsidian and InXile.
Big difference. Both Obsidian and InXile were better planned and provided a lot more detail during the KS's as to what is happening with the game, details provided to backers every step of the way. Very professional approach. Better managed imho. At no point *yet* has there been any suggestion of delays or running out of money or running to HiB etc etc...
Posted July 02, 2013
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Crosmando: And how is that worse than what DF has done?
Because promising something you don't even have the rights to promise is worse than just being bad at budgeting. At least DF have the rights to do what they promised, just not the intelligence.

In both cases they are foolish, but I think throwing around promises about something you don't own without checking first if you're allowed to fulfil those promises is worse. It's subjective, I think we'll have to agree to differ.
Posted July 02, 2013
This might still turn out OK.
Posted July 02, 2013
Well, this isn't a surprise, maybe the details are but we knew they were having budget problems.

I'm not sure if Double Fine is suited to be an independent developer. On one hand a publisher might stifle creativity, but on the other, they always had problems managing their budgets that I think they might need someone breathing down their neck.
Posted July 02, 2013
Well, I don't post on here much, but I wanted to add my two cents. I wasn't a big fun of their games (not to mention puzzle games at all), so I didn't back the first Kickstarter.

But, I was going to back Massive Chalice, however decided not to after listening to the gay idiot saying really odd things that have nothing to do with the game. Like mentioning his "white privilege" and how that would effect the game in a bad way. Really? I wanted to hear about the game but felt I was being shoved political opinions. It was red flag.

And he kept mentioning a kazillion times that was no gender equality in medieval times and then stressing that his fantasy game was going to be different. Five minutes later, he starts stating again that since it was going to be based upon "medieval themes" and with that comes the patriarchal privilege of passing your house to your first born son (line of succession) therefore creating a problem. Then he starts talking about how since gays can't produce children (this game spans across several generations of heroes) what "benefit" will they have...and he doesn't know. This round about circus went on for a long while; and by that time, I was done.

Bottom line: There was no clear vision, and it felt that he was trying to please everyone with this world/game (based upon his notions of inclusiveness), rather than focusing on a compelling story/idea/world/game to sell his audience into funding.

I'm glad I went with my gut.
Post edited July 02, 2013 by Zenman12
Posted July 02, 2013
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Zenman12: Bottom line: There was no clear vision, and it felt that he was trying to please everyone with this world/game (based upon his notions of inclusiveness), rather than focusing on a compelling story/idea/world/game to sell his audience into funding.

I'm glad I went with my gut.
The expected liberal politics of California game developers aside, Massive Chalice was basically an idea they asked for money to pursue. There were no clear stretch goals because they had no real idea what they wanted to do yet. I was massively turned off by that.
Posted July 02, 2013
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Zenman12: Bottom line: There was no clear vision, and it felt that he was trying to please everyone with this world/game (based upon his notions of inclusiveness), rather than focusing on a compelling story/idea/world/game to sell his audience into funding.

I'm glad I went with my gut.
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StingingVelvet: The expected liberal politics of California game developers aside, Massive Chalice was basically an idea they asked for money to pursue. There were no clear stretch goals because they had no real idea what they wanted to do yet. I was massively turned off by that.
Yeah I was dumbfounded that they approached the audience in this way. Whatever your opinions are in the real world is one thing, but as a game developer, you should be focused on making a compelling game. If that means Medieval notions of line of succession then fine. If it is a game set up in West Hollywood, whatever.

If you want to make a medieval fantasy world, then you should be focused on creating such a world, and deliver it to your audience in a compelling way.

I felt the video was his opportunity to CONVINCE the viewer that he was confident in what he wanted to do and how he was going to deliver it. I felt it failed.

I've backed another California game developer like inxile, because I felt that the video talked about the game and where they wanted to go with it.
Posted July 02, 2013
I can understand the desire to go above and beyond when you get an obscene amount of money like they did, but holy crap use some common sense. As much as I may not like financial seeing them on the killjoy side, but they are a necessary sanity check. There needs to be some boundaries. For starters news flash, people were fine with your original proposal. Yes, see what can be reasonably improved but meet your obligation is to fulfill your original contract.

What they could have done instead was make the original game with some improvements and then use the extra money for a free dlc as a thank you for the massive support. This way they can meet the original agreement. And then for what is left start using it for a good old fashion expansion pack. I don't think the fanbase would be opposed at all to seeing their money go towards a continuation of the game.
Post edited July 02, 2013 by Thunderstone
Posted July 03, 2013
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Thunderstone: What they could have done instead was make the original game with some improvements and then use the extra money for a free dlc as a thank you for the massive support.
I think many people don't realize that the original game was supposed to be a small Flash-type game with only a handful of rooms, made by a group of three people within six months. If they had released anything like that, even with some improvements, people would have crucified them. Double Fine *had* to improve the scope of the game significantly after receiving a couple million dollars - but they took it too far. Apparently they wanted to create a new Grim Fandango or Full Throttle without realizing how expensive that would be.
Posted July 03, 2013
To think small devs like Wadjet Eye could probably make like ten good games (or more) with that kind of money... It really makes me wonder. As others have already pointed out, even Daedalic makes more with less. For shame, Double Fine.

I'm starting to feel a bit of backer's remorse for Broken Age now. I guess there was a good reason for me to stop backing projects after my first few tryouts. There's still a good amount of risk involved, especially when devs can't manage their budget appropriately. =/
Post edited July 03, 2013 by mistermumbles
Posted July 03, 2013
Early access on an adventure game? How is that supposed to work?
Posted July 03, 2013
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mistermumbles: To think small devs like Wadjet Eye could probably make like ten good games (or more) with that kind of money... It really makes me wonder. As others have already pointed out, even Daedalic makes more with less. For shame, Double Fine.
Well, to be fair, Wadjet Eye and other indie devs often depend on some highly idealistic individuals who are willing and able to work for free for significant amounts of time. Vince Twelve, the developer of Resonance, worked on the game in his spare time for FIVE YEARS without taking a salary during that time. Chris England, the lead developer of Xenonauts, has been working on his game since 2009 and has invested his life savings in the game. Obviously, that kind of dedication is extremely rare and cannot be expected from most professional developers, for whom making video games is simply a job.
Post edited July 03, 2013 by spindown
Posted July 03, 2013
- What manner of man are you that can swallow up budget without publishers or brand licensing?
- I... am an enchanter.
- By what name are you known?
- There are some who call me... Tim?
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keeveek: Early access on an adventure game? How is that supposed to work?
"Look", don't "Touch".
Post edited July 03, 2013 by grviper
Posted July 03, 2013
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keeveek: Early access on an adventure game? How is that supposed to work?
10 minutes worth of gameplay from a random part of the game? ;)
Posted July 03, 2013
*Sigh*

See people, this is why you wait until the game is developed and THEN you buy the game. Or you at least invest formally, with set deadlines and binding requirements.

What Tim has done here - THIS is basically what Kickstarter is. "Give me your money and I'll finish the game at my leisure or maybe never at all."
Post edited July 03, 2013 by jamyskis
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General discussion (archive)Double Fine EPIC FAIL at budget management(570 posts)(570 posts)
(570 posts)