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General discussion (archive)Do we own our Steam games?(130 posts)(130 posts)
(130 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 02, 2012
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SimonG: snip
I think so.

Of course I have no idea how it works in Germany.
Posted February 02, 2012
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SirPrimalform: As I said: you've lost the ability to download them, not the licence. You're confusing ability and legal right.
I may be wrong with this, but I think that GOG deleting your account would also mean that you'd be losing the license to play the games. The thing is that GOG cannot delete the files from your HDD.

Assuming a company can somehow do this, and assuming that country laws allow it, I'm pretty sure a company would try that. It is just not possible right now.
Posted February 02, 2012
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SLP2000: Of course I have no idea how it works in Germany.
Do be honest, I don't think most lawyers/judges and especially law makers do.

Videogames, in particular the one sold digitally, are a legal nightmare over here. I was, for the tiny fracture of a second, considering writing my thesis about "digital services and licencing" but then I though, fuck it, I'm taking something that won't change every two weeks!
Posted February 02, 2012
It's no different in Poland. It's not easy to find a lawyer who even know about limited acvitations, one time activation keys, online accounts ,etc, not to mention about thinking deeply about that problem.

There are no cases about it, so nobody gives a damn.
Posted February 02, 2012
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SirPrimalform: As I said: you've lost the ability to download them, not the licence. You're confusing ability and legal right.
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kavazovangel: I may be wrong with this, but I think that GOG deleting your account would also mean that you'd be losing the license to play the games. The thing is that GOG cannot delete the files from your HDD.

Assuming a company can somehow do this, and assuming that country laws allow it, I'm pretty sure a company would try that. It is just not possible right now.
Only the original licence giver should be able to withdraw the licence. But GOG can work as a "proxy". And, of course, they would need a legal reason to withdraw your licence.

But if GOG closes your account and withdraws your licence you might still be able to play the games via backups, but you are simply a pirate in that case.
Posted February 02, 2012
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kavazovangel: I may be wrong with this, but I think that GOG deleting your account would also mean that you'd be losing the license to play the games. The thing is that GOG cannot delete the files from your HDD.

Assuming a company can somehow do this, and assuming that country laws allow it, I'm pretty sure a company would try that. It is just not possible right now.
TOS says nothing about that.

And it would be illogical - this would mean every DD sale is valid only as long as the service is working.

They are selling a digital copy of the game with a licence to use this game. They were entitled to do this by copyright holders, so the copyright holders are bound by our (GOG and their users) agreement, which happens every time you buy a game.

If GOG stop to exist (or they delete your account), you are still granted licence you bought from GOG. I see nothing in their TOS that could lead to other coclusion.
Post edited February 02, 2012 by SLP2000
Posted February 02, 2012
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SLP2000: snip
They say digital distribution platform is a service, so they don't technically sell any games, they sell service. And you may use the service as long as it's provided by them.
Posted February 02, 2012
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SirPrimalform: As I said: you've lost the ability to download them, not the licence. You're confusing ability and legal right.
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kavazovangel: I may be wrong with this, but I think that GOG deleting your account would also mean that you'd be losing the license to play the games.
Actually, no. Nowhere in GOG's terms of service are the licenses linked to the permanent right to re-download the games. Based on its ToS, GOG _can_ close accounts, and _could_ declare licenses to be void. However, the latter does not automatically follow from the former unless they specifically say so. As long as they don't, closing a GOG account means that you can't re-download the files anymore, but it doesn't influence your license to play said games.
Posted February 02, 2012
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keeveek: They say digital distribution platform is a service, so they don't technically sell any games, they sell service. And you may use the service as long as it's provided by them.
who said that?
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Psyringe: and _could_ declare licenses to be void
based on which sentence of the TOS?
Post edited February 02, 2012 by SLP2000
Posted February 02, 2012
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keeveek: They say digital distribution platform is a service, so they don't technically sell any games, they sell service. And you may use the service as long as it's provided by them.
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SLP2000: who said that?
In GOG TOS for example, they use terms service all the time, and not a single time about selling games.

If you could look up how they pay taxes, they probably pay VAT for selling service, not for selling items. I suppose.
Posted February 02, 2012
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Fred_DM: ownership would mean you have the right to dissect or 'reverse-engineer' the games in your possession, modify with consent and even profit off your modifications. obviously, you're not allowed to do any of that without explicit permission, which is sometimes given but always at the cost of privileges. .
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Namur: If it's not explicitily allowed none of that falls into a legitimate use of the copy you bought.

You own the copy you bought if when you go about using that copy in a legitimate way and you're faced with no hoops to jump through. Do i onw my gog games ? Yes, the worst that could happen would be loosing the ability to redownload them if gog went tits up, but i could go on forever using the copies of the games i bought here. Do i onw my steam games ? No, not rally, there's a whole set of ocurrences that can lock me out or prevent the use of my steam account and every purchase tied to it even when i'm simply trying to use my purchased copies in a legitimate way.
That's like saying that if I pirate a copy, I own it. Since it's in my hands, and no one can take it away.

Now obviously the purchase of license is mixed in here.
Buy a license on Gog, gog closes. You can still play your backed up games.
Buy a license on Steam, Steam closes. You can't play your games anymore (assuming they don't do anything to make it so, or have a way for you to play the games you backed up with Steam)

But if the steam user then pirate's a version of the game, what's the difference? You both bought a license of the game, you both have a version you can play. Sure, Steam required an extra step (part of which you have to do on Gog anyway (download and backup)), but in the end the result is the same.
You both have a license, and no digital delivery of the game anymore.
Post edited February 02, 2012 by Pheace
Posted February 02, 2012
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keeveek: snip
I have no idea about taxes they pay, but yeah, they provide service where they are selling digital copy of the game with a licence to personal use.

I can't imagine how could I interpret it differently.

They only way could be they are only renting games, which would be a nonsense.
Posted February 02, 2012
You either sell a service or sell an item

For example, Pizza Hut provides service, they don't sell pizzas [because you may expect that pizza will arrive in time, warm, with sauce, etc, or if you're in their restaurant, the service includes tables, napkins, etc). (at least in tax law :P)
Post edited February 02, 2012 by keeveek
Posted February 02, 2012
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Pheace: You both have a license, and no digital delivery of the game anymore.
Yeah, but you have the licence to use the GOG copy or Steam copy, not any copy of the game.
Posted February 02, 2012
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SLP2000: snip
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keeveek: They say digital distribution platform is a service, so they don't technically sell any games, they sell service. And you may use the service as long as it's provided by them.
Just because the items aren't physical, it doesn't mean the don't sell them. A licence is an abstract concept, but they still sell them.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Do we own our Steam games?(130 posts)(130 posts)
(130 posts)