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agogfan: I wonder if even Blizzard themselves don't have a clear idea as to the extent always online has really hurt them, assuming they do want to release another title in the near future.

I hope they poll all the people who bought Diablo 3 and ask them if they're happy with their purchase.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong and the only people who still buy PC games live in first world countries and have uncapped, cheap, reliable, and super fast internet connections... and don't use their computers for anything else but gaming and thus don't mind the security risks (which shoud be unnecessary for single players) presented by cloud computing... which is a whole topic on it's own.
Unfortunately. the people least interested in responding to such a poll would be the very people who've lost interest in Blizzard. There really is no way of quantifying the amount of damage done in this case. Whereas with EA and Ubisoft it's degrees of magnitude more apparent.
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FraterPerdurabo: I understand that you are a part of the self-proclaimed 'majority'. Could you please explain to me how a completely optional system ruins your personal gameplay experience?
So... You're trying to say that Blizzard would be removing auction house if only minority would be against it? I don't think they're idiots, you know.

As for how it ruins the gameplay experience - well, the higher difficulties were quite obviously designed with a lot of grind in mind, far more than that in previous Diablo games. Can't really prove anything, but to me, that stinks of Blizzard trying to force you down the AH road - of course, all of this is second-hand information, but I would be really, really surprised if AH didn't reflect into gameplay in any way. Now that Blizzard is removing AH, they can remove ways it has reflected on gameplay as well, turning it into a more enjoyable experience for everybody.

Then there's the other point - where there was actual money at stake, Blizzard had to protect the game a lot more, which is, I believe, one of the main reasons for the always-online DRM. Now that it's gone, there's no need for such a strong grip over what players can or cannot do - so now we can actually hope for an offline patch.

Before you try throwing 'unconfirmed' and 'not objective' at me in any way - I base my purchases on opinions I have formed. If some of my trusted friends tell me that features of the game they feel are based on the inclusion of AH are actively hurting their game, I am going to take their word on it over that of Blizzard.
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Fenixp: So... You're trying to say that Blizzard would be removing auction house if only minority would be against it? I don't think they're idiots, you know.

As for how it ruins the gameplay experience - well, the higher difficulties were quite obviously designed with a lot of grind in mind, far more than that in previous Diablo games. Can't really prove anything, but to me, that stinks of Blizzard trying to force you down the AH road - of course, all of this is second-hand information, but I would be really, really surprised if AH didn't reflect into gameplay in any way. Now that Blizzard is removing AH, they can remove ways it has reflected on gameplay as well, turning it into a more enjoyable experience for everybody.

Then there's the other point - where there was actual money at stake, Blizzard had to protect the game a lot more, which is, I believe, one of the main reasons for the always-online DRM. Now that it's gone, there's no need for such a strong grip over what players can or cannot do - so now we can actually hope for an offline patch.

Before you try throwing 'unconfirmed' and 'not objective' at me in any way - I base my purchases on opinions I have formed. If some of my trusted friends tell me that features of the game they feel are based on the inclusion of AH are actively hurting their game, I am going to take their word on it over that of Blizzard.
Nobody ever asked me, you know? I don't understand how you can throw around terms like "majority" when the playerbase has never even been asked anything concerning this matter. Sure, I see people bitch on the forums, but this is not an indication of numbers to any degree. In fact, the sheer number of people using the auction house is a testament to its popularity.

No offence, but your view on gameplay balance is bullshit. Diablo 3 endgame is as hard as Diablo 2 endgame, with the exception that Diablo 3 has infinitely better drop rates for gear that is actually useful. And gameplay is significantly easier.

I know that the consensus on this forum appears to be that Blizzard introduced the RMAH so that they could profit from the transactions. Maybe. Maybe not. Does not matter, because it is speculation. But buying items for real money has been around since, what, the inception of ebay? Gold buying was rampant in Diablo 2 and it will once again become rampant in Diablo 3. The only difference is that there is no more vetted environment for doing it, once again opening the market to scammers and all the bullshit that was always tied to it.

As for the gold AH, trading has always been around and it will still be around after the AH is closed. Once again, it will be driven to the forums, just like in the days of Diablo 2 (and all the bullshit that was attached to it). The auction house was fantastic because it allowed for the establishment of a common currency - gold. Once the AH closes, gold will lose its value just like in Diablo 2, and the community will once again have to establish its own currency, such as runes and forum gold in Diablo 2.

So, at least concerning gameplay, shutting down the AH does not address any of your concerns and it will not have any effect other than, once again, leaving to community to self-regulate trading.
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FraterPerdurabo: No offence, but your view on gameplay balance is bullshit. Diablo 3 endgame is as hard as Diablo 2 endgame, with the exception that Diablo 3 has infinitely better drop rates for gear that is actually useful. And gameplay is significantly easier.
I don't really want to get in the middle of this argument, but that particular statement jogged me. As far as I can tell, you're saying that D3 is just as hard as D2, only much easier. That seems self-contradictory.
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FraterPerdurabo: Nobody ever asked me, you know?
It doesn't seem like Blizzard has asked anyone - based on that and based on them actually being the developers of the game, I'd say they have access to more information than you or I.

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FraterPerdurabo: No offence, but your view on gameplay balance is bullshit.
It's not my view, I have played D3 for about 2 hours and it was lagging terribly. As I have stated earlier, it's a view of people whose viewpoints on gaming I trust - and I really don't know you well enough for you to be one of them.
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Wishbone: ...
I believe he meant easier as in less complex, not less difficult.
Post edited September 21, 2013 by Fenixp
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FraterPerdurabo: No offence, but your view on gameplay balance is bullshit. Diablo 3 endgame is as hard as Diablo 2 endgame, with the exception that Diablo 3 has infinitely better drop rates for gear that is actually useful. And gameplay is significantly easier.
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Wishbone: I don't really want to get in the middle of this argument, but that particular statement jogged me. As far as I can tell, you're saying that D3 is just as hard as D2, only much easier. That seems self-contradictory.
Diablo III is easier than Diablo 2: difficulty makes things interesting only in the last difficulty level (on four), where in Diablo II the easy walk would end at the beginning of the second difficulty level (on three) (immunes everywhere are a real pain).
Special mention to the fight against Diablo itself, which is in Diablo III far easier than in Diablo I & II.

Don't take my opinion wrongly: even if I enjoy far more Diablo I & II than III, I still had a fairly good time playing Diablo III.

Back to the subject: the closing of the Auction House is good news IMHO.
I don't want to play multi-player in a game where my co-players just bought their stuff when I had to fight hard for it, it ruins balance and achievement feeling.
And playing single-player only in a game like this is missing half the fun.

I'm actually considering buying it after the AH close (just waiting to give a try on the expansion before making my final choice).
I never even thought about buying it when the AH was still the core of the game!
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Wishbone: I don't really want to get in the middle of this argument, but that particular statement jogged me. As far as I can tell, you're saying that D3 is just as hard as D2, only much easier. That seems self-contradictory.
Heh, you are right indeed. What I meant to convey was that choice of gear is a lot more flexible in Diablo 3. On a very basic level, you find a piece of gear and if the numbers are green, you put it on. If they are red, you leave it. Good gear is a lot easier to come by. In Diablo 2, good gear was very hard to come by and roughly 99% of all uniques / sets were trash. Furthermore, you also had to look after things like breakpoints. All of this meant that gear choice was extremely rigid in D2.

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Fenixp: It's not my view, I have played D3 for about 2 hours and it was lagging terribly. As I have stated earlier, it's a view of people whose viewpoints on gaming I trust - and I really don't know you well enough for you to be one of them.
Suit yourself. As for my 'credentials', I have about 500 hours clocked into Diablo 3. Diablo 2 on the other hand... I played that game for almost 10 years and I have probably spent as much time outside the game trading and theorycrafting, as I have spent time inside the game. If there is a game that I know inside-out and backwards, then it is Diablo 2.

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vv221: Back to the subject: the closing of the Auction House is good news IMHO.
I don't want to play multi-player in a game where my co-players just bought their stuff when I had to fight hard for it, it ruins balance and achievement feeling.
I suggest you hold your horses with that purchase, because I can guarantee you that the people with whom you will be playing will have bought their gear on forums instead.
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FraterPerdurabo: I suggest you hold your horses with that purchase, because I can guarantee you that the people with whom you will be playing will have bought their gear on forums instead.
You are presuming that vast majority of D3 players would frequent forums - they won't. I'm fairly sure that even back in the D2 days, it was vocal minority who actually was doing all the trades, especially real money ones. Your average player can rarely be arsed to go beyond boundaries of the game.

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FraterPerdurabo: Suit yourself. As for my 'credentials', I have about 500 hours clocked into Diablo 3. Diablo 2 on the other hand... I played that game for almost 10 years and I have probably spent as much time outside the game trading and theorycrafting, as I have spent time inside the game. If there is a game that I know inside-out and backwards, then it is Diablo 2.
Well as I said, regardless of actual quality, I won't actually buy the game as long as always-online is a thing. And in the two hours, when everything worked fine, I wasn't all that impressed with the quality either - it would take a lot to persuade me to buy the game :-P
Post edited September 21, 2013 by Fenixp
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Fenixp: You are presuming that vast majority of D3 players would frequent forums - they won't. I'm fairly sure that even back in the D2 days, it was vocal minority who actually was doing all the trades, especially real money ones. Your average player can rarely be arsed to go beyond boundaries of the game.
The people buying items for cash in D2 were a small minority, and I would assume that probably not that many people (comparatively) used the RMAH in Diablo 3. But that is not the point. The point is that by providing the RMAH you are regulating the practice. By removing the RMAH, you are not removing the practice, you are removing the regulation. Real money trades will still be around. There is a case to be argued that trading items for cash ruins the game, but by removing the AH, you are not removing the practice.

As for what trading in D2 was like - you are right, it was not all on the forums. In Diablo 2 you could create your own games and there were a lot of "O x N y" and "TRADE HERE" games around. In Diablo 3 you don't have that, because you cannot create labelled games / lobbies. Meaning that forums will be the only place where you can trade.

As for the 'average player', they don't matter. By the time the RMAH shuts down, the game will be 2 years old. It is not a game that will be attracting a significant influx of new players. Rather, it will essentially end up like Diablo 2, where only the fans and hardcore players are left to keep the game alive. If you want to captivate an audience such as this one, you need to rely on metagaming. For example, in Diablo 2, you had several metagames, including trading, duelling, laddering, etc. In Diablo 3, the AH provided a metagame to those who wanted to use it. By removing it, you are removing an incentive to play the game for many of these hardcore players who essentially make up the core of your playerbase.
Delete.
Post edited December 14, 2013 by BKGaming
I'm one of those luck people who got Diablo 3 for $10 thanks to price matching and IMO I never got my money back. I was continually funneling money into my wallet for gold to buy good items for my monk. The 2 legendaries haven't even sold for the minimum. Everything I got was for another class or very inferior to what I got from the AH. I probably spent $30 on top of the game cost for the RMAH gold (only place players could really make money) to buy stuff off the gold AH (I think I spent 4 million on a lvl 60 weapon with lvl reduction by like 12 I won't have to replace for a while). I dislike having online functionality and if the console release is anything to go by, we could have offline-Blizzard just doesn['t see the cash
I don't own D3 and only played D1/D2 using SP or LAN but . . all D2 items were available not too long after release (see attached .. yeesss I still have them).

I would assume that someone would figure out how to game the D3 code as well. This would make the AH nothing but a joke as generated items would flood the AH. I am just speculating but shutting down AH before it became common knowledge that items could be generated without game play would be a wise decision?? Since I don't play D3 there may be reasons this couldn't happen that I am not aware of . . ignore my speculation if this is so. =)
Attachments:
d2_items.jpg (327 Kb)
With Blizzard shutting down the mostly hated Auction House, I was hoping that they would ditch the online requirement. I thought the whole purpose of online only was the creation of the Auction House. Oh well.
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wizisi2k: I'm one of those luck people who got Diablo 3 for $10 thanks to price matching and IMO I never got my money back. I was continually funneling money into my wallet for gold to buy good items for my monk. The 2 legendaries haven't even sold for the minimum. Everything I got was for another class or very inferior to what I got from the AH. I probably spent $30 on top of the game cost for the RMAH gold (only place players could really make money) to buy stuff off the gold AH (I think I spent 4 million on a lvl 60 weapon with lvl reduction by like 12 I won't have to replace for a while). I dislike having online functionality and if the console release is anything to go by, we could have offline-Blizzard just doesn['t see the cash
What a sucker.
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Stuff: I would assume that someone would figure out how to game the D3 code as well. This would make the AH nothing but a joke as generated items would flood the AH. I am just speculating but shutting down AH before it became common knowledge that items could be generated without game play would be a wise decision?? Since I don't play D3 there may be reasons this couldn't happen that I am not aware of . . ignore my speculation if this is so. =)
The code generating drops is all placed on the side of Blizzard servers, that's why this can't happen in D3.