So, I just found out that debt collectors have been calling my phone back in the US. Thank you Uncle Google for google voice and the ability to get those voice mails.

Anyways, the point of the post is primarily to remind folks to keep documentation of things which could be construed as student loans as those can have an unlimited statute of limitations. AFAIK, the US is the only developed country where that is the case.

It is true that the burden of proof is on the debt collector's part to prove that the debt exists, that you owe it and that the sum is correct. However, having documentation that it was paid off makes it a lot less stressful for you. And it makes it a lot easier to be confident that they haven't got jack.

I still have to contact the agency to see what I allegedly owe, and then probably an attorney to verify that creditors don't get to wait 5 years before issuing a first bill. But, I'm not really worried as the creditor never did bother to respond to my certified letter demanding debt validation.

Not looking for legal advice here, although if anybody does know a good attorney in the greater Seattle area I might have use for one.

And remember kids, the more you know about your rights, the less likely you are to do something stupid and turn fake debt real or make uncollectable debt collectable.

You can thank the (R)s for that change in 2004/6 (forget which year). Bankruptcy is extremely brutal and inflexible now, including making any kind of school loans, even private, non-dischargeable.

This has actually not improved the bankruptcy situation, it was basically a change that was more interested in ideology than facts.

Yeah, there's that. In this case it's particularly egregious because the debt doesn't exist and they don't have any sort of documentation to back it up. In practice while they do have unlimited time on federal financial aid, the ability to file suit gets more and more difficult as people retire or they can't find witnesses to back the veracity of the records.

But why would anyone want to burden you with a fake debt?

That seems absurd.

Surely, they'd know you'd know whether you are in debt or not.

This is not something someone would forget.

They really can't, the payouts are too small and the costs too high. There's a lot of non-lawyers that share information on how to successfully counter sue and win against debt collectors, it's not terribly hard, they don't pay a lot or hire very bright people. Debt collection in the US is the business of parasites and scum suckers, for people who if they had better morals would be running protection for the mob instead (yes, that would be morally superior to these fucks). These are not "big corps", big corps try not to touch this shit, because you can't get the stink off, they sell off uncollected debts to these bastards for pennies on the dollar. Last time I checked less than 10 cents on the dollar was ever collected back.

Now, you can have some sole proprietorship show up at a bankruptcy hearing (like a jeweler who's out 5000 for a fancy ring), these aren't scum, but they're also in the vast, vast minority of debt collectors too. No they don't, even a medium sized bank will be unlikely to be able to find an originally signed form/contract for a credit card, for example. If it's a community credit union with a couple branches, yeah, they'll walk downstairs and pull it out of their files, banks, don't make me laugh. There's a reason they were usually unable to come up with documentation about many of the foreclosures and loans during the recent crises.

Sorry to hear about this, man. I'm no legal expert but just wanted to wish the situation resolves smoothly for you.

Based on the timing, I'm guessing they went trawling through their records for people that were listed as owing them money. And didn't bother to properly verify that the records were accurate or even made sense.

The period that this alleged bill covers was when they were moving the records to a different location and I'm guessing that things got lost in the shuffle.

It is fake debt, I notified them of that when they contacted me last year and requested debt validation before I even considered paying. And I sent it via USPS with signature verification of reception.

It's fake in the sense that it's not real and they have had their chance to verify with me that I owe the money, which they haven't done.

This is one of those times when one shouldn't be too quick to ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

And yes I would remember. I've only been late on a small number of payments over the last nearly 15 years and all of those were paid without having to get debt collectors involved.

Welcome to the US.. >.>

Just about everyone here is in debt in one form or another, maybe 1/2-2/3rd of people actually know exactly where all their debt is.

Now, as for the 'fake debt', that's a different matter:
There's 2 key possibilities here (assuming of course that Hedwards is accurate in his records and is debt free).. either the agency that handled his debt failed to register the last payment, and now for the last 6 years his account has been floating around between collection agencies, none of whom want to deal with going after it for such a small amount, but now the latest to get it has seen the interest/late fees etc. on it as worth going after.
OR, it's a scam..

There are 'bill collection agencies' which will get people information and fabricate a debt they owe, in the hopes that they really do owe such a debt and will pay without researching. They will call up people, lots of people and be all "Hello Mr. Bobberson, this is Ima Conartist from Dewy Cheetum and Howe bill collectors, our records indicate you still owe $532.27 on your student loans. If you could just cut a check and send it to..." >.>

Or, you know.. it could be what Hedwards said.. but I totally doubt that. ;)

Thanks, I'm sure it will.I have plenty of documentation even though I require none, so I will prevail.

It's just coming at an inconvenient time with me in the PRC.

Yeah, Federal student loans stick after you go bankrupt. The only word that leaps to mind is 'Bullshit'. I mean, what the fucking point? I'm glad special intrest groups man-handled congress into allowing the government to harass you to you die. /sarcasm

As far as I can tell what happened was that the state sold the debt to a creditor, even though the debt doesn't exist. I know that last year the state demanded money and I told them to basically fuck off unless they provided me with the documentation.

So, in all likelihood the collection agency isn't the bad guy,they just bought debt that isn't debt. And as long as they stop trying to collect after I dispute the debt, they won't have done anything wrong.
A lot of people don't know that. I'm lucky in that I have documentation that the federal loan was paid off and that the college received their payments. Otherwise I would be more worried. The only reason I had a federal loan at all was because I had money that the federal government owed me for services rendered. I'm not really sure it was a federal loan, but I have documentation to prove that it was paid as promised. So, it's just the payments that I made and those are going to be well past the statute of limitations at this point.

I'm mostly concerned about my credit score getting ruined.

If anybody on the forum becomes aware of this fact and makes sure to keep those records, at least there will be some good to come of it.

Sounds a mit fishy to me, I can not tell for the USA but in Germany, any legal claim has to be by postal mail and not by a phone call.

I'm not sure if it's related, but I get about three letters per year from debt collectors who claim that I owe someone some (usually small) sum of money; mostly it's a years-old third-party telecommunication debt that I allegedly never paid.

Thing is, I am absolutely fanatic over not going into debt, I'm not even doing hire-purchases. I know exactly that I paid all my bills in my life. However, lots of people aren't so sure, and since the sums are usually small, they often pay the debt, fearing that their name might end up in our national General Credit Protection Agency's list of delinquent creditors if they don't (which in turn would make it harder to get a credit). Some criminals send such letters to random addresses, hoping that some people will pay, and apparently it earns them enough money to let them continue.

There have been steps taken to crack down on illegal and abusive practices, but phone calls are still legal. There are however limits on how often and when they can call. As well as what they say to third parties.