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FiatLux: Well , as long as it is not about "fucking mammoths" instead then I will probably be OK anyway....
;-P


Not bad ! , yes you are right I eat dairy products (as a lacto-Vegetarian) , but not animal parts or other kinds of derivatives such as egg , animal fat , fish , fowl , whatever...
(I only eat plant substances , dairy products and oh yes honey......
Reminds me , I need a "Honey" ;-)

By the way , nice article that you referred to ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacto-vegetarian )
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wodmarach: I really do wonder why people exclude eggs.. they are infertile so can't ever develop into chickens/ducks (Balut is a different matter and one I personally dislike) about the best thing you can do with them apart from eating them is use them as fertilizer...
Try to let eggs or meat rot and see what develops if you compare to if you let plant parts rot then perhaps there is some of "your answer"....
Anyway , I think theat most vegetarians that abstain from eating eggs do it for ethical reasons because they ("in an eggshell") see the egg as an undeveloped ready made organism that is alive, or have the potential for life, of that which is (life) at "animal level" (one could argue that everything is alive - and some does that exactly - anywway , being a vegetarian is somewhat of a "luxury attitude" to take/have as not all people lives or are born in a place where it is even possible - though some lives and are born in places where it is very much possible and would make great sense to make such a choice - it takes far more plant material to make meat than to eat than what you have to use of plant material to feed a person... )
Post edited February 26, 2012 by FiatLux
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FiatLux: snip
Ok gonna take it step by step
Leaving meat or eggs to rot and see what happens compared to plants... well exactly the same things happen to both macro and micro organisms attack it and it begins to rot.. what you expect it to be different between them? It's not the macro organisms are different in some cases (but essentially some remain the same) and it's broken down returning nitrates etc to the soil. Really what's special about that?
Eggs being alive. Well here's a problem eggs sold commercially are UNFERTILIZED they can't mature they have no life they are a yolk and albumen that's it (as I said Balut is different and I personally dislike it) that little red spot you see in some isn't an embryo it's a blood clot.
Animals take more land but require less chemicals (except in america where the idiots corn feed causing health problems in cattle oh it's also what most "calories per acre" studies use as a base corn is terrible for cattle and very VERY wasteful (this btw is true for unprocessed corn and humans too)) Meat is also denser in nutrients requiring less land for storage, less per person and essentially less digestion. We are not designed to be vegetarian we (badly) process plant matter as food yes but we are designed to get a significant portion of our nutrients from non plant matter. ::edit:: Oh just to add Pork is actually the most efficient protein production method over 3x more efficient than Soy etc. When people spout about "vegtables are more efficient" they mean corn and potatos which are infact pretty damn good (though corn requires processing to get at the calories etc) they don't factor in protein at all.
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wodmarach: snip
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SimonG: Dear god, why did I google balut...
Sorry I should really have put a warning on that it's not something people outside of that area meet regularly I discovered it talking to a Thai friend...
Post edited February 26, 2012 by wodmarach
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wodmarach: Ok gonna take it step by step
Leaving meat or eggs to rot and see what happens compared to plants... well exactly the same things happen to both macro and micro organisms attack it and it begins to rot.. what you expect it to be different between them? It's not the macro organisms are different in some cases (but essentially some remain the same) and it's broken down returning nitrates etc to the soil. Really what's special about that?
I gather that you it does not "compute" for you that bacterias that evolves when meat and eggs rot are probably , at least in most cases, be much different than those of if it were plant material

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wodmarach: Eggs being alive. Well here's a problem eggs sold commercially are UNFERTILIZED they can't mature they have no life they are a yolk and albumen that's it (as I said Balut is different and I personally dislike it) that little red spot you see in some isn't an embryo it's a blood clot.
What I also wrote where (if you cared to read it) where :
" or have the potential for life, of that which is (life) at "animal level" "


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wodmarach: Animals take more land but require less chemicals (except in america where the idiots corn feed causing health problems in cattle oh it's also what most "calories per acre" studies use as a base corn is terrible for cattle and very VERY wasteful (this btw is true for unprocessed corn and humans too)) Meat is also denser in nutrients requiring less land for storage, less per person and essentially less digestion. We are not designed to be vegetarian we (badly) process plant matter as food yes but we are designed to get a significant portion of our nutrients from non plant matter. ::edit:: Oh just to add Pork is actually the most efficient protein production method over 3x more efficient than Soy etc. When people spout about "vegtables are more efficient" they mean corn and potatos which are infact pretty damn good (though corn requires processing to get at the calories etc) they don't factor in protein at all.
That is a bíg discussion I do not want to bother to take - I am not here to "reform" you I just made a post in a forum so I won't take any major dispute over this.. (You can take it up with PETA or some Veggie-group organization if you are looking for a fight)....
Post edited February 26, 2012 by FiatLux
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FiatLux: I gather that you it does not "compute" for you that bacterias that evolves when meat and eggs rot are probably , at least in most cases, be much different than those of if it were plant material
both are breeding grounds for harmful bacteria both produce the same impact in nature the bacteria aren't that different (and are in many cases the SAME bacteria( Listeria, Salmonella and E. Coli))

What I also wrote where (if you cared to read it) where :
" or have the potential for life, of that which is (life) at "animal level" "
Did you know even in a farm with a cockerel only ~6% of chicken eggs are fertilized? I honestly can't see any ethical problem with eating unfertilized eggs they serve no other purpose except to rot/feed ovum eaters(distracting them from fertile eggs) and you can candle them at 3-5 days (they are still pretty damn fresh at this point) showing if they are fertile or not...

That is a bíg discussion I do not want to bother to take - I am not here to "reform" you I just made a post in a forum so I won't take any major dispute over this.. (You can take it up with PETA or some Veggie-group organization if you are looking for a fight)....
but you used it! o.O
it takes far more plant material to make meat than to eat than what you have to use of plant material to feed a person
and it's a bullshit argument as I pointed out. The claims are false unless you only consider corn and potatoes after that things balance out and by protein animals are FAR more efficient for a given land usage as well as providing fertilizer etc for the rest of the farmland
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FiatLux: I gather that you it does not "compute" for you that bacterias that evolves when meat and eggs rot are probably , at least in most cases, be much different than those of if it were plant material
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wodmarach: both are breeding grounds for harmful bacteria both produce the same impact in nature the bacteria aren't that different (and are in many cases the SAME bacteria( Listeria, Salmonella and E. Coli))
I don't think so , and there is actually a lot of proof and arguments against your somewhat "naive" thinking - but I don't care if you believe me or understand me . If you wish you may take it up with someone who actually cares.....

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FiatLux: What I also wrote where (if you cared to read it) where :
" or have the potential for life, of that which is (life) at "animal level" "
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wodmarach: Did you know even in a farm with a cockerel only ~6% of chicken eggs are fertilized? I honestly can't see any ethical problem with eating unfertilized eggs they serve no other purpose except to rot/feed ovum eaters(distracting them from fertile eggs) and you can candle them at 3-5 days (they are still pretty damn fresh at this point) showing if they are fertile or not...
So what !

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FiatLux: That is a bíg discussion I do not want to bother to take - I am not here to "reform" you I just made a post in a forum so I won't take any major dispute over this.. (You can take it up with PETA or some Veggie-group organization if you are looking for a fight)....
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wodmarach: but you used it! o.O
"Whatever....

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FiatLux: it takes far more plant material to make meat than to eat than what you have to use of plant material to feed a person
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wodmarach: and it's a bullshit argument as I pointed out. The claims are false unless you only consider corn and potatoes after that things balance out and by protein animals are FAR more efficient for a given land usage as well as providing fertilizer etc for the rest of the farmland
No it is not a bullshit argument , this depends on other lines of thinking also , anyway as written you can take it up with someone else I do not want the bother....
Post edited February 26, 2012 by FiatLux
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FiatLux: snip
I give up your obviously not open to even considering looking into current research... you use an argument then disown it with take it up with PETA... I give up.
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SimonG: Ohhh, would you post that DRM free on the forums?
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Kabuto: DRM recipes only. You can only use the exact brands of ingredients I tell you to use! :p
I assume DRM wheat is off the table then?
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FiatLux: snip
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wodmarach: I give up your obviously not open to even considering looking into current research... you use an argument then disown it with take it up with PETA... I give up.
I am simply impervious to your "fishing expeditions" and can not be goaded by you to act differently...... I do not "disown" anything as you were clearly told that I would not be further bothered with this..... Your subsequent "petty complaining" that I am not taking the baite is of little value.....
Post edited February 26, 2012 by FiatLux