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Magnitus: <snip>
Here in sweden we're big in hydroelectricity too and I also grew up in a comunity with a plant.
Those plants don't emit any poisons no but they do have a rather big impact on the environment, it's just hard to see.
What they do is that they make it very hard for fish that need to travel up and down the river to reproduce. Make it harder for a not insignificant part of the species in a ecosystem and you will get consequences.
It's a main factor why eels are red listed to name one species.

Also they change the beach eco system and the environment around it by reducing yearly flooding and generally altering the river.

That being said it's not one of the really bad boys and one of the best options we have that's "in production" and not in a testing/developing phase like solar and wind energy.
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I'm the same as you with hardware. Rarely buy a new product and when I do it's almost always because my old broke or it's so old it's not of much use anymore.

But I see people buying new everywhere and many friends and colleges get new stuff all the time. I guess people like shiny.

I'm not sure a attitude change is all that's needed. It will help a lot but as long as we keep inventing and producing new things in a furious tempo we'll not change much I'm afraid.
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Digital revolution.

That's probably up to taste. I love having clutter like books everywhere. Makes it cozy. :)
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Yeah trees don't grow fast enough but it's still better than minerals and oil that practically don't grow at all.
What I'm hoping for is better recycling. If we recycled more paper I think the trees would grow fast enough without having to use too much space.
We need to get better at recycling overall. Companies need to realise that there are much money to be made there.

Many argue that we're already at peak oil. Don't know but I don't think oil prices will go down any more.
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F1ach: snip
Your missing the point, no business model needs DRM. People who want to buy, will buy regardless of DRM or not. I haven't bought a single digital item because I had to due to it being DRMed. Ebooks don't need DRM like music or games don't need DRM to sell well. And people who don't want to buy it will pirate it regardless of DRM.

I have a lot of Steam because, not because I need to use Steam, but because they offer a service that works very good for me. (Better than GG, eg.) But I certainly don't buy Steam games because I can't get them otherwise.
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F1ach: snip
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SimonG: Your missing the point, no business model needs DRM. People who want to buy, will buy regardless of DRM or not. I haven't bought a single digital item because I had to due to it being DRMed. Ebooks don't need DRM like music or games don't need DRM to sell well. And people who don't want to buy it will pirate it regardless of DRM.

I have a lot of Steam because, not because I need to use Steam, but because they offer a service that works very good for me. (Better than GG, eg.) But I certainly don't buy Steam games because I can't get them otherwise.
There are a significant number of people incapable of circumventing DRM for various reasons The fact that some (many) are capable of getting past DRM doesnt make it "right" to circumvent the DRM.

But, a company has an obligation to exert some dilligence to protect its goods from illegal distribution. The fact that you (not you personally) obtain its goods/services by bypassing its DRM is piracy, it doesnt matter how you dress it up, its still stealing.

The fact that a company puts DRM on a product is because they feel that not doing so will cause the product to be stolen. Same way a bank puts its money in a safe so people dont counterfeit it. If they thought the product was safe in the first place, they wouldnt go to the expense of designing DRM to protect it. They feel that it gives them some protection from thieves.

If its circumvented its because the circumventer wants to steal it.
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F1ach: snip
Piracy is not stealing. Period. Piracy is a lot of things, but is never has been, will be or can even be remotly anything to stealing. Historically and technically.

And circumventing DRM isn't piracy. It might be a breach of contract, but it certainly isn't piracy. Most piracy laws are aimend at the acquiring or sharing of an illegal copy. Simply because everything else would be insane in courts.

Now if you have to justify somehow why you buy stuff and not pirate it, that is your problem. I buy my products because I like to spent my money on things I like and not because they are "protected". And guess what, it is the same for most people. People in general don't adhere the law because they are afraid to get cought, they adhere the law because they accept it. The occiasional "break" of those laws, like minor tax evasion, running a red light, wiggle yourself out of a contract by stating wrong facts, cheating in school tests is normal and acceptable in each society. Now you have a minority of oddballs, which are very visible because we all focus on them. But that doesn't mean that most of the socially accepted rules aren't hold up by the general public.

DRMs are targeting excactly at those few. And they fail, because those few have already cancelled their social contract. DRM won't affect them at all.

Remember how apples iTunes sales dropped after they released their music DRM free? Nope, well, probably because they didn't. That is because most people that enjoy the music and have the means to pay for will do so willingly regardless of DRM.

I'm done here. Your last post has shown a most obvious lack of at least legal understanding on the issue.
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F1ach: snip
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SimonG: Piracy is not stealing. Period. Piracy is a lot of things, but is never has been, will be or can even be remotly anything to stealing. Historically and technically.

And circumventing DRM isn't piracy. It might be a breach of contract, but it certainly isn't piracy. Most piracy laws are aimend at the acquiring or sharing of an illegal copy. Simply because everything else would be insane in courts.

Now if you have to justify somehow why you buy stuff and not pirate it, that is your problem. I buy my products because I like to spent my money on things I like and not because they are "protected". And guess what, it is the same for most people. People in general don't adhere the law because they are afraid to get cought, they adhere the law because they accept it. The occiasional "break" of those laws, like minor tax evasion, running a red light, wiggle yourself out of a contract by stating wrong facts, cheating in school tests is normal and acceptable in each society. Now you have a minority of oddballs, which are very visible because we all focus on them. But that doesn't mean that most of the socially accepted rules aren't hold up by the general public.

DRMs are targeting excactly at those few. And they fail, because those few have already cancelled their social contract. DRM won't affect them at all.

Remember how apples iTunes sales dropped after they released their music DRM free? Nope, well, probably because they didn't. That is because most people that enjoy the music and have the means to pay for will do so willingly regardless of DRM.

I'm done here. Your last post has shown a most obvious lack of at least legal understanding on the issue.
'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
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Elmofongo: 'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
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Elmofongo: 'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
Everybody knows that piracy is "murder" as you are killing a potential sale.
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Elmofongo: 'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
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SimonG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
yes yes I am aware that piracy is not stealing as in "taking one's property thus leaving the original owner deprived of said property" piracy is actually copying, but copying products and selling it for free or for the copyers own profit deprives the original creator of profit
Post edited May 05, 2012 by Elmofongo
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Elmofongo: yes yes I am Aware that piracy is not stealing as in "taking one's property thus the original owner is deprived of said property" piracy actually copying but copying products and selling it for free or for the copyers profits deprives the original creator of profit
But that isn't what we are discussing here. (And still no piracy)
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Elmofongo: yes yes I am Aware that piracy is not stealing as in "taking one's property thus the original owner is deprived of said property" piracy actually copying but copying products and selling it for free or for the copyers profits deprives the original creator of profit
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SimonG: But that isn't what we are discussing here. (And still no piracy)
Yeah I know back on topic DRM like SecuRom and whatever drm ebooks use will never stop pirates
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SimonG: Piracy is not stealing. Period. Piracy is a lot of things, but is never has been, will be or can even be remotly anything to stealing. Historically and technically.

And circumventing DRM isn't piracy. It might be a breach of contract, but it certainly isn't piracy. Most piracy laws are aimend at the acquiring or sharing of an illegal copy. Simply because everything else would be insane in courts.

Now if you have to justify somehow why you buy stuff and not pirate it, that is your problem. I buy my products because I like to spent my money on things I like and not because they are "protected". And guess what, it is the same for most people. People in general don't adhere the law because they are afraid to get cought, they adhere the law because they accept it. The occiasional "break" of those laws, like minor tax evasion, running a red light, wiggle yourself out of a contract by stating wrong facts, cheating in school tests is normal and acceptable in each society. Now you have a minority of oddballs, which are very visible because we all focus on them. But that doesn't mean that most of the socially accepted rules aren't hold up by the general public.

DRMs are targeting excactly at those few. And they fail, because those few have already cancelled their social contract. DRM won't affect them at all.

Remember how apples iTunes sales dropped after they released their music DRM free? Nope, well, probably because they didn't. That is because most people that enjoy the music and have the means to pay for will do so willingly regardless of DRM.

I'm done here. Your last post has shown a most obvious lack of at least legal understanding on the issue.
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Elmofongo: 'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
Its theft, if you go into a pub and buy a pint of beer and then decide to share it with your mate, the beer doesnt magically clone itself into two beers, the pub has sold one pint and one pint has been consumed.

Removing drm from a product and redistributing it so that the artist/author / original distributor receive no remuneration for something they conceived/created and provided money to produce and distribute, is stealing, doesnt matter how you try to cover it in sugar, its stealing from somebody, you are stealing their product and any financial gain they are due for that product.

Its their product, if they attach a drm feature to it, they are entitled to do that, its their product, they offer it for sale with those conditions attached, if you dont like it, dont buy it.
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Elmofongo: 'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
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F1ach: Its theft, if you go into a pub and buy a pint of beer and then decide to share it with your mate, the beer doesnt magically clone itself into two beers, the pub has sold one pint and one pint has been consumed.

Removing drm from a product and redistributing it so that the artist/author / original distributor receive no remuneration for something they conceived/created and provided money to produce and distribute, is stealing, doesnt matter how you try to cover it in sugar, its stealing from somebody, you are stealing their product and any financial gain they are due for that product.

Its their product, if they attach a drm feature to it, they are entitled to do that, its their product, they offer it for sale with those conditions attached, if you dont like it, dont buy it.
well seeing as a majority of people does not like DRM than creators should reevaluate their stance how should they defend their products because I think they are overprotecting it otherwise they are going to suffer massivly the best examples of this is Spore and Crysis shipping with SecuRom and Assassin's Creed 2 with always online DRM
Post edited May 05, 2012 by Elmofongo
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F1ach: Removing drm from a product and redistributing it so that the artist/author / original distributor receive no remuneration for something they conceived/created and provided money to produce and distribute, is stealing, doesnt matter how you try to cover it in sugar, its stealing from somebody, you are stealing their product and any financial gain they are due for that product.
No you are not, you are making an authorized copy of it, it's copyright infringement. You can call it theft, murder, rape whatever you want and use all sorts of arguments/metaphor to justify it, it doesn't change the fact that it remains copyright infringement.

It's not to say it's "better" or "less wrong" that stealing, it's just something different.
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F1ach: Removing drm from a product and redistributing it so that the artist/author / original distributor receive no remuneration for something they conceived/created and provided money to produce and distribute, is stealing, doesnt matter how you try to cover it in sugar, its stealing from somebody, you are stealing their product and any financial gain they are due for that product.
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Gersen: No you are not, you are making an authorized copy of it, it's copyright infringement. You can call it theft, murder, rape whatever you want and use all sorts of arguments/metaphor to justify it, it doesn't change the fact that it remains copyright infringement.

It's not to say it's "better" or "less wrong" that stealing, it's just something different.
This, people are really confusing Copyright Infringment and common theft
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F1ach: Its theft, if you go into a pub and buy a pint of beer and then decide to share it with your mate, the beer doesnt magically clone itself into two beers, the pub has sold one pint and one pint has been consumed.

Removing drm from a product and redistributing it so that the artist/author / original distributor receive no remuneration for something they conceived/created and provided money to produce and distribute, is stealing, doesnt matter how you try to cover it in sugar, its stealing from somebody, you are stealing their product and any financial gain they are due for that product.

Its their product, if they attach a drm feature to it, they are entitled to do that, its their product, they offer it for sale with those conditions attached, if you dont like it, dont buy it.
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Elmofongo: well seeing as a majority of people does not like DRM than creators should reevaluate their stance how should they defend their products because I think they are overprotecting it otherwise they are going to suffer massivly the best examples of this is Spore and Crysis shipping with SecuRom and Assassin's Creed 2 with always online DRM
Well as regards AC2 I have the 360 version, but I wont buy D3 because it has always online drm. Securom is different because its actually possible it will bugger up your PC, so I would never touch a product with that on it. :)