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orcishgamer: They don't win by handing B&N the same browbeating monopoly that Amazon.com currently has, they win by making sure there can be no monopoly.
B&N doesn't have a monopoly. I can read those B&N books on any ereader that isn't made by Amazon. Which is why I bought a Nook in the first place, I can read the same books that I get elsewhere and I have done so when I could take some money off the price.

There's a reason why everybody else standardized around either PDF or epub.
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orcishgamer: They don't win by handing B&N the same browbeating monopoly that Amazon.com currently has, they win by making sure there can be no monopoly.
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hedwards: B&N doesn't have a monopoly. I can read those B&N books on any ereader that isn't made by Amazon. Which is why I bought a Nook in the first place, I can read the same books that I get elsewhere and I have done so when I could take some money off the price.

There's a reason why everybody else standardized around either PDF or epub.
No I get that they don't. What the publishers want to do is not have a single market controlled by a single entity that can dictate to them. I'm sure they have no problem with DRM free ePub, but so long as people are buying DRM they are beholden to the market that they're buying it from. The publishing industry thinks it's better that people can switch (mostly because the publishers think they can benefit from getting us to switch as it's convenient for them).

If they hand the marketshare that Amazon has to B&N then they've just traded tyrants. They want to fracture the digital book markets.
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hedwards: B&N doesn't have a monopoly. I can read those B&N books on any ereader that isn't made by Amazon. Which is why I bought a Nook in the first place, I can read the same books that I get elsewhere and I have done so when I could take some money off the price.

There's a reason why everybody else standardized around either PDF or epub.
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orcishgamer: No I get that they don't. What the publishers want to do is not have a single market controlled by a single entity that can dictate to them. I'm sure they have no problem with DRM free ePub, but so long as people are buying DRM they are beholden to the market that they're buying it from. The publishing industry thinks it's better that people can switch (mostly because the publishers think they can benefit from getting us to switch as it's convenient for them).

If they hand the marketshare that Amazon has to B&N then they've just traded tyrants. They want to fracture the digital book markets.
That's both paranoid and unjustified. B&N uses a standard DRM scheme that works on pretty much every device and is used in pretty much ever other ebookstore that exists. What you've got there is a straw man, slippery slope and probably a few other fallacies rolled into one. Precisely what is keeping people using B&N for their purchases when they can buy from other sellers as well?

Adobe is the only one that would have more power, and it's in their best interest not to do anything particularly stupid.

I like that they're pushing for DRM free books, but they don't have to as epubs are already available across stores and across devices, and going with an industry standard format is not something that lends itself to domination by B&N.

Amazon traps people by using an exclusive DRM scheme that isn't used anywhere else, sort of like how Apple used an Apple only DRM scheme to help it cement it's place in the MP3 player market.
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Elmofongo: WARNING ME RANTING!:

This is why I read books on paper and cover litirally I cannot believe people bought ebooks for the sake of conviniance and because of that the Borders in the mall I go to closed down because of f#ckin DRM ridden ebooks that bought "BECAUSE IT'S CONVIENIANT. I DON'T WANNA GO TO A STORE AND WAIT IN LINE AND PUT BOOKS ON MY SHELF"

RANT OVER!

........I apolegize to anyone I offended, I just despise ebooks with a passion
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the_bard: I can relate. It is sad. That being said, I have nothing against digital books. You ever seen that movie The Ninth Gate? My living room looks like something similar atm...
Never heard of that movie in my lifetime is it good?
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orcishgamer: No I get that they don't. What the publishers want to do is not have a single market controlled by a single entity that can dictate to them. I'm sure they have no problem with DRM free ePub, but so long as people are buying DRM they are beholden to the market that they're buying it from. The publishing industry thinks it's better that people can switch (mostly because the publishers think they can benefit from getting us to switch as it's convenient for them).

If they hand the marketshare that Amazon has to B&N then they've just traded tyrants. They want to fracture the digital book markets.
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hedwards: That's both paranoid and unjustified. B&N uses a standard DRM scheme that works on pretty much every device and is used in pretty much ever other ebookstore that exists. What you've got there is a straw man, slippery slope and probably a few other fallacies rolled into one. Precisely what is keeping people using B&N for their purchases when they can buy from other sellers as well?

Adobe is the only one that would have more power, and it's in their best interest not to do anything particularly stupid.

I like that they're pushing for DRM free books, but they don't have to as epubs are already available across stores and across devices, and going with an industry standard format is not something that lends itself to domination by B&N.

Amazon traps people by using an exclusive DRM scheme that isn't used anywhere else, sort of like how Apple used an Apple only DRM scheme to help it cement it's place in the MP3 player market.
Actually, I'm not being paranoid (so far as I know), this is the gist of the news articles and interviews I read on the subject yesterday. I suppose it could turn out to be false, since it seems to be what they're saying and the old "bullshit" detector isn't going off, I'm willing to buy it at face value for now.
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orcishgamer: Actually, I'm not being paranoid (so far as I know), this is the gist of the news articles and interviews I read on the subject yesterday. I suppose it could turn out to be false, since it seems to be what they're saying and the old "bullshit" detector isn't going off, I'm willing to buy it at face value for now.
Honestly, it's kind of a stupid thing to argue about ultimately. If they're genuine about going DRM free, I think that's really the important thing.

But, I don't see how using an industry standard DRM scheme would allow for B&N to maintain, much less create, a monopoly in the space. I bought a book off Kobo a while back because it uses the same DRM and it works just fine.

The one I bought from Amazon before I bought my ebook reader and before epub became standard won't read in anything other than Amazon approved devices, which is to say Kindle.

If they want to also cut Adobe out of the picture, I'm fine with that, but it's something more than what they need for their stated goal. And without them just switching to epub with ADEPT DRM, it's impossible to really establish how that would work out.
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Elmofongo: Never heard of that movie in my lifetime is it good?
Yup. Find it and watch it some time.
I love my Kindle, if it wasnt for Kindle I would never have read 5 Witcher books by Andrzej Sapkowsk , because they would not be available in my country.

I also like the fact that Kindle can play audio books as well, I got two free with the Kindle and I find them great for listening to while driving.

Having the Kindle has made my kids more interested in reading, the novelty value has worn off, but now they will read books more regularly (real books).

As regards DRM, well like digi downloads of games, I have issues with them being the same price as boxed versions, but thats the way the world is going.

DRM is the only way they can ensure they will get paid for the e-books as basically they are just text files and its not like Amazon are getting all the money, most of it goes to the publisher/author, same as ordinary books.
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F1ach: DRM is the only way they can ensure they will get paid for the e-books as basically they are just text files and its not like Amazon are getting all the money, most of it goes to the publisher/author, same as ordinary books.
They're trivial to crack yourself, all you need is the appropriate ID, which ultimately can be gleaned from the device. Once you have that, there's very little that they can do to stop you from cracking every book you buy.

Unlike software where people have to crack each and ever game.
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SimonG: What have you been smoking?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay
Music, not crap sold through iTunes.
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F1ach: DRM is the only way they can ensure they will get paid for the e-books as basically they are just text files and its not like Amazon are getting all the money, most of it goes to the publisher/author, same as ordinary books.
By the same definition GOGs should have DRM.
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SimonG: What have you been smoking?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay
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kavazovangel: Music, not crap sold through iTunes.
What an mature and appropriate answer...
Post edited May 05, 2012 by SimonG
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SimonG: What an mature and appropriate answer...
Well, what am I supposed to say?

I've always been getting lossless, DRM-free music, in 16bit WAV. Never ever had to deal with DRM, and everything I've ever wanted has been available. So there, music has never been DRMed. :p

There are other things besides Amazon and iTunes.
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SimonG: What an mature and appropriate answer...
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kavazovangel: Well, what am I supposed to say?

I've always been getting lossless, DRM-free music, in 16bit WAV. Never ever had to deal with DRM, and everything I've ever wanted has been available. So there, music has never been DRMed. :p

There are other things besides Amazon and iTunes.
Please, tell me more. I'm so baffled by your wisdom....
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SimonG: Please, tell me more. I'm so baffled by your wisdom....
Beatport
Audiojelly
Juno Download
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F1ach: DRM is the only way they can ensure they will get paid for the e-books as basically they are just text files and its not like Amazon are getting all the money, most of it goes to the publisher/author, same as ordinary books.
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SimonG: By the same definition GOGs should have DRM.
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kavazovangel: Music, not crap sold through iTunes.
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SimonG: What an mature and appropriate answer...
Its great gog doesnt have drm, thats their business model, amazon has a different business model, if you dont like it, then get something else or get pirate versions. I replaced all my Steam games with console versions because I dont like Steam, dont buy something you dont like.

I have no problem with amazons drm (I have hard copies of most of the kindle books I have anyway), I think kindle is great. It's just an opinion.
Post edited May 05, 2012 by F1ach