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hansschmucker: There are some good games, but right now the selection is rather limited. Publishers are careful and they are afraid to set a precedent if they publish games here, without DRM.

I am just wondering, after reading everything, if you are actually aware of what goes on here?
Who says that Pulishers are afraid to set a precedent if they allow games on here with no DRM?
Who?
You seem to have a thing about DRM and have not quite grasped that this site is DRM free and there appears to be absolutely no problem whatsoever with GOG getting games on the list.
low rated
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hansschmucker: Publishers are like dinosaurs. It takes something extra tasty to make them turn their head. And stupid as this may sound to most of us, $50k is not nearly tasty enough for most of them.
The trick is to give them something that looks like their usual (DRMed) chow

I think I've got it. Are you a troll? Are we feeding you, with your insane ramblings, is that it?
No, I'm not a troll and neither am I insane. I just want the best experience and well, that means getting content under acceptable terms. I'm posting here simply as an enduser.
@Barefoot_Monkey. That's actually a valid point... I'm in Germany with relatively high average connection speeds (>2MBit/s average, 16MBit/s for me), so I didn't think about that at all. Would be interesting to get some data from GoG about how often that actually happens (i.e. purchases without download).
About the legal liability. Well, to be honest, it's already there. These games are still copyrighted after all and if you're found distributing it to people without an appropriate license (usually, that would mean any way that allows for distribution to anyonymous users, like web pages or P2P) you will be found guilty, with or without watermark and/or DRM. This probably doesn't apply to South Africa, but in Europe, the US, China and many other countries, your IP can be linked back to your name, so if you distribute something, the publisher can get back at you.
@Cliftor: I guess so... but maybe we can get percentages for some topics...
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hansschmucker: Hi everybody.
I just wanted to say "good job" to everybody at GoG. The experience is flawless. The page is a joy to navigate and pretty much my "Gold Standard" as far as online shops are concerned. It's so effortless that I even repurchased a game (Unreal) that I already own, just because it was so much easier than looking for the disc :)
My little problem is about the merchandise itself. There are some good games, but right now the selection is rather limited. Publishers are careful and they are afraid to set a precedent if they publish games here, without DRM. Of course, that's what attracted me and many others here to actually use GoG, so it seems like we have a sort of stalemate situation here.
But maybe there's some common ground. I mean, we all buy games. We don't want to pirate them, otherwise we wouldn't be here. We just don't want to deal with obstructive DRM that gets in the way. So, for me at least, a little bit of "oldfashioned" DRM would be acceptable in the form of a signature that is embedded into games that I purchase and that is linked to me. Nothing that "executes", but maybe a credit card hash value embedded into a texture or something like that. That way, if a GoG game is distributed, it can be traced.
I know this isn't an effective mechanism, but neither is "normal" DRM and yet the publishers still require shops to use it so maybe, just maybe, it will be enough to attract some more.
What I would want GoG to do if they choose that route is properly communicate it. If a publisher requires such an embedded signature, please say so. Don't hide it in the ToS. Put it right on the info page... something like "The publisher of this game requires use to sign each download of this game with a unique signature that can be traced back to your account, so be sure not to put it into the wrong hands."
So, what do you (by which I mean both the GoG staff and the users) think?

I'm sorry but i had to give your post a negative point. Coming to an online porject's forum , whose sole purpose is to sell DRM free games and proposing some sort of DRM measures, is distasteful to say the minimun.
I don't want any DRM, or any code changing thtat resembles the slitest with DRM on my games. Period. Let alone a "fingerprint" conaining information about me.
And I leave you with poin no 3 from the page "about us" from gog
3. You buy it, you keep it.
Don't let your DRMs turn into nightmares (clever, no?). You won't find any intrusive copy protection in our games; we hate draconian DRM schemes just as much as you do, so at GOG.com you don't just buy the game, you actually own it. Once you download a game, you can install it on any PC and re-download it whenever you want, as many times as you need, and you can play it without an internet connection.
Post edited December 04, 2008 by Ghostfromthepast
And I in turn have to compensate by rating it positively: that person exposed an idea in a civil way and with explanations, so nothing justifies branding his post in such a manner. I do find his/her idea misguided, but that shouldn't have anything to do with rating.
I didn't get the link between the OP's idea and purchases without downloads though.. But in case it helps, I've bought about 15 games but only D/L'd 4 so far. I just can't play everything at once, but I wanted to support GOG right away. "a beginning as a very delicate time" :)
@Ghostfromthepast, I suggest that you reread my post and the snippet from the About page you posted and you'll see that they don't have anything to do with each other. The quote talks about what I refer to as "active" DRM, not passive mechanisms like watermarks. In fact, GoG could install watermarks and they wouldn't even have to change anything in that sentence. I wouldn't advise them to do it that way, but they could.
Lots of people in this thread have made valid points (mostly against my idea, but I'm OK with that) and I want to discuss those, so please. post all ideas, reasons, problems and so on that you can find, but do so in a civilized manner.
@GuiOhm Thank you, that's the way I see it too. We should be able to discuss anything. About the "purchases without games" statistic. A bit of a problem... I didn't think that people would usually buy without downloading, except if they already had the data (from a friend) and just wanted the license for it. So, that would skew the numbers towards the "Shared Downloads/Bought to Support GoG" category, but I'd still still love to see a percentage for that.
I get the OPs point, but adding watermarks to old games is not really practical to start with.
Secondly what is the point? Newer games are the ones that will make the most profit, so being able to control their distribution at all cost makes somewhat sense. Doing this to older games will involve a bigger investment that it would be worth.
GOG is mostly visited by gaming enthusiasts who are willing to pay for these old gems. The free alternative usually involve incompatibility issues at best and corrupted files at worst.
If GOG can keep itself profitable enough by selling these games fully functional, then this service will be a benefit on itself as opposed to the hassle you might otherwise need to go through.
There is of course the issue of people distributing it afterwards, but lets be honest here. Unless you genuinely love gaming you can't be bother to play these downright ugly, clunky, outdated, devoid of latest hits or obscure hiphop cameos releases.
Yes we praise the gameplay, yes we drool over the sheer wave of nostalgia and we love re-experiencing these long lost adventures, but our fellow pubescent bedroom-hackers and leechers don't. They want the newest of the newest and latest of the latest.
GOG will work and live as long as enough people care and given time publishers will smell the money and go digging into their archives.
I agree, Fluofish. Watermarks on old don't really make sense and there's little chance that whatever piracy happens without the watermarks wouldn't have happened if the watermarks are there.
The reason I'm even thinking about this is that, right now, GoG is next to useless to me, because there aren't any games there anymore that I miss. And sadly, only the content providers can fix this, so I'm trying to think of ways to attract them. Problem is, publishers are very set in their ways and change is something that doesn't easily happen. And almost certainly it won't happen just for us "enthusiasts", so I'm trying to think of ways that we could still attract publishers. (Maybe I should have made that more clear in the first post).
Watermarking is not going to help things much though, is it? Cool, you've identified a pirate, now you have to spend time and effort to sue the crap out of him. Publishers wouldn't do that. They aren't doing that, and it's not like that's because they couldn't really find pirates to sue.
Well, they do it in Western Europe and America, but they probably wouldn't go after low-profit titles like the ones on GoG.
Frankly, it's more about the publishers peace of mind (because they could if they wanted) than anything else.
The whole DRM 100% free bit is kinda the whole reason we are here. I don't even really like the idea of watermarks.
And as for having a limited library I've got a lengthy list of games I want to play. Also keep in mind they are still in beta. Also they average about 3 new games per week which is more than enough to keep us all busy.
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GuiOhm: And I in turn have to compensate by rating it positively: that person exposed an idea in a civil way and with explanations, so nothing justifies branding his post in such a manner. I do find his/her idea misguided, but that shouldn't have anything to do with rating.

Ok. Fair enough!
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hansschmucker: @Ghostfromthepast, I suggest that you reread my post and the snippet from the About page you posted and you'll see that they don't have anything to do with each other. The quote talks about what I refer to as "active" DRM, not passive mechanisms like watermarks. In fact, GoG could install watermarks and they wouldn't even have to change anything in that sentence. I wouldn't advise them to do it that way, but they could.
Lots of people in this thread have made valid points (mostly against my idea, but I'm OK with that) and I want to discuss those, so please. post all ideas, reasons, problems and so on that you can find, but do so in a civilized manner.

Are you calling me incivilized? Hmmm! Hã!!!!! HM!!!!! Me uncivelized????????? I gave you the point and explained why. What would you prefer take a minus and not knowing the reason?????? Uncivilized, me??? YOU'LLL SEE WHAT'S UNCIVILIZED!!!!
Ok now for the "sane part" of this post. The "why i dislike a lot" the watermark idea ( or any other than a serial/cd key, cd check) it is because, for all intents, an invasion of my privacy, and of the game code itself. It would be no better than having a rootkit on you pc. Ok it would not be invasive (from your and others point of view) but i don't think that way. I like my games coded "skeaky clean".
Now seeing the things from another "hot topic" current point of view, the second hand game market, would you like, supposing you'd sell one of your games with watermark and info relative to you embeded in the code, to have someone trying to have access to it?
Bottom line, yes watermarks could get more publisher for gog, but ultimately it could remove potential buyers.
Post edited December 04, 2008 by Ghostfromthepast
Your sarcasm aside, that's the kind of post I want :)
Just a little correction: Watermarks don't live in the code. They live in the data. Sometimes, they're added as resources to the EXE, sometimes they live in separate packages (for example a text file included in the download) or if the publisher is sneaky inside game ressources (images, sounds, dialog descriptions, config files,...) But as soon as they are evaluated by the software, nobody can call them "just watermarks" anymore.
I also like my games clean... Even including a watermark on its own is definitely not something that I would consider if there wasn't the potential gain of having more games available without active DRM. It's just that I'd rather have a hundred games to with watermarks to chose from than ten without.
Edit: PS: About the second hand game market... You're right that's a problem I hadn't thought of and that would undoubtedly appear once newer games are added to the catalog. I simply didn't look beyond the current situation where we just buy classics for which the resell value is close to 0 anyway. I'll think about it, right now I can't think of any good solutions either.
Post edited December 04, 2008 by hansschmucker
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hansschmucker: No, I'm not a troll and neither am I insane. I just want the best experience and well, that means getting content under acceptable terms. I'm posting here simply as an enduser....

You're going on about Publishers being afraid to allow GOG to host games without DRM but cannot prove it ! Who is afraid? Why?
You have jumped to conclusions, offered no proof, started a needless rant about DRM yet I get the - scores? Flippin' 'eck!!
Post edited December 04, 2008 by Clagg